Bush commutes sentences of former Border Patrol agents

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by tarponkeith, Jan 19, 2009.

  1. #1
    Bush commutes sentences of former Border Patrol agents

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/19/bush.commute/index.html

    That's awesome! I was sure he was going to do it a while ago, then the clock started ticking, and started second-guessing it. I'm glad he did this. After eight years, there hasn't been many times when I'd give Bush a thumbs up, but this is definitely one of them...


    Sorry if this posts more than once, my internet has been messing up lately.
     
    tarponkeith, Jan 19, 2009 IP
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  2. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #2
    This is long LONG, WAY LONG over due!
     
    Mia, Jan 19, 2009 IP
  3. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #3
    Mexico is on its way to becoming a failed state. There were 5,600 killed in 2008 in Mexican drug wars and the killing is starting to spill over the border. In fact, US intelligence believes that both Pakistain and Mexico are in danger of collapsing into failed states.

    There's really not much said in the mainstream media but there have been a number of incusions by the Mexican Military into the US in support of drug smugglers.

    http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_3430815
     
    bogart, Jan 20, 2009 IP
  4. shamus

    shamus Active Member

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    #4
    Even though it is overdue, I'm glad it was done, because I doubt it would happen in the next administration.
     
    shamus, Jan 20, 2009 IP
  5. GeorgeB.

    GeorgeB. Notable Member

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    #5
    The last thing he did on the way out and he gets it right.

    Now if only this were the only entrance in his legacy record.
     
    GeorgeB., Jan 20, 2009 IP
  6. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #6
    Truman and Nixon left with lower popularity ratings than George Bush and now they are viewed a great presidents.
     
    bogart, Jan 20, 2009 IP
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  7. GeorgeB.

    GeorgeB. Notable Member

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    #7
    Excuse me, did you just compare Bush to Nixon then try to make that an argument that he was a great president?

    Nixon?
     
    GeorgeB., Jan 20, 2009 IP
  8. myp

    myp Well-Known Member

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    #8
    Maybe that wasn't the greatest comparison, but it really is too early to judge how Bush will go down in history. Most historians agree it takes 20-30 years before a president can accurately be judged. Also, Bush can turn his legacy around if he does good things in his post-presidency, just look at Carter if you need an example.
     
    myp, Jan 20, 2009 IP
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  9. GeorgeB.

    GeorgeB. Notable Member

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    #9
    Hmmm... yeah you see this is one of those situations that perfectly illustrates that quite often time "experts" or in our case "historians" opinions don't apply to every situation.

    That might have been been a fairly accurate guesstimate years ago. But this is the age of the internet and youtube. It's a completely different world from just 2 or 3 presidents ago. People are connected in ways they couldn't have dreamed of just 10 years ago.

    The man was booed on his last day in office. His approval rating was broadcast on cable news networks and discussed by MILLIONS of people in online forums 24 hours per day every day for the past 4 years.

    People won't forget things as easily as they did in days of old anymore. Frankly, because more people are informed. It's much harder to spin history to your benefit when people are informed.
     
    GeorgeB., Jan 20, 2009 IP
  10. myp

    myp Well-Known Member

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    #10
    You make a good point about the involvement of technology in this equation any maybe the current generation won't ever like him, but how he goes in the history books is based more upon how his policies play out over the next few decades as opposed to what the people think of him right now.
     
    myp, Jan 20, 2009 IP
  11. GeorgeB.

    GeorgeB. Notable Member

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    #11
    Yeah his approval ratings right now do sort of put him in a can't get any worse type situation.

    With Iraq, if things just continue the way they are or if it even ends up being proven that overthrowing Saddam was the catalyst for Iran's rise to power in the region and more problems then it'll simply be a shoulder shrug. People will have expected Iraq to be a mess anyway. But if something good miraculously happens in the region and he can get the historians to credit the Iraq war with having something to do with it, he benefits.

    But as to his policies specifically, well......

    His foreign policy has lead us to be even more despised around the world than we were before he took office. And that's saying a lot because we weren't exactly everyone's favorite country to begin with.

    His economic policy, simply saying he is leaving office in the middle of a recession speaks volumes on it's own.

    Simply put, he fails the "are we as a nation, better off when he leaves office" litmus test. And we now have digital video evidence of all of this and it will be on the internet or whatever it's equivalent in 30 years from now. People won't have to go to a public library and read dusty old books to get the truth.
     
    GeorgeB., Jan 20, 2009 IP
  12. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #12
    Bush Foreign Policy

    Saddam Hussein was a threat and the sanctions weren't working anymore. Food for oil was being circumvented by France, Germany and Russia. The error Bush Administration made was that tried to fight the war on the cheap. The US needed more troops to pacify the country and intern the Iraqi army.

    Afganistan has been a success. But the Democrats have backed themselves into a corner. By saying that they would withdraw from Iraq, because we should be fighting in Afganistain. The fighting in Afganistain may take 50 years and it's better to keep US troop levels at 30,000 to limit the cost. The Russians had as many as 115,000 troops there back in the 80's. They learned that as long as the militants can rearm and recruit in Pakistain, the war was unwinable. Sometimes you don't need to win in order to win. George Washington found that out back in 1777.

    Bush Economic Policy

    Bush and McCain tried to clean up the mess in 2005 with the - Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005 but the Democrats stonewalled the reform. Btw, Obama took a lot of campaign money from Fannie Mae.

    Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005

    Bill Summary

    1/26/2005--Introduced. Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005 - Amends the Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act of 1992 to establish: (1) in lieu of the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight of the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), an independent Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Agency which shall have authority over the Federal Home Loan Bank Finance Corporation, the Federal Home Loan Banks, the Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae), and the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie Mac); and (2) the Federal Housing Enterprise Board. Sets forth operating, administrative, and regulatory provisions of the Agency, including provisions respecting: (1) assessment authority; (2) authority to limit nonmission-related assets; (3) minimum and critical capital levels; (4) risk-based capital test; (5) capital classifications and undercapitalized enterprises; (6) enforcement actions and penalties; (7) golden parachutes; and (8) reporting. Amends the Federal Home Loan Bank Act to establish the Federal Home Loan Bank Finance Corporation. Transfers the functions of the Office of Finance of the Federal Home Loan Banks to such Corporation. Excludes the Federal Home Loan Banks from certain securities reporting requirements. Abolishes the Federal Housing Finance Board.
     
    bogart, Jan 20, 2009 IP
  13. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #13
    Bogart, they are never going to get it. You could hold a dollar bill in front of a liberals face and they'd try to convince you it was a fifty.

    There's no reasoning with these people. 20 years from now, when reality sets in, maybe then and only then will many begin to understand just how ignorant they were.
     
    Mia, Jan 21, 2009 IP
  14. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #14
    And some of them might be over 35 by then and had some real world experience. Maybe, just maybe they will be raising a child, if they don't kill them all, and have gained some wisdom.
     
    debunked, Jan 21, 2009 IP
  15. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #15
    It's amazing how ones world view changes after 30. If anyone here read "Marley and Me" or at the very least saw the movie. There is a line in it where Owen Wilson's character John Grogan is applying for a job and is asked by his prospective boss why he should hire him over the 3-5 other more qualified candidates. His reply? "I don't know if I'm smarter than these other guys. What I do know is I have an amazing ability to surprise myself. I mean look, 10 years ago I was doing bong hits and playing Donkey Kong, and now look at me."

    The 10 years after high school, an the 10 after that are the most growing up one does in their adult life IMO. The changes in opinions, world views and family are beyond all comprehension. You tend to become all you thought you hated and while you never lose site of what you may have been, never regretting what you might have done - you take with you the realization that having not traveled whatever road you have, you'd not be where you are today and wiser because of it.

    Unfortunately some people never do grow up or learn. This is how you end up with people like Pelosi, Reid and Franks to name a few.
     
    Mia, Jan 21, 2009 IP
  16. GeorgeB.

    GeorgeB. Notable Member

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    #16
    Too bad it'll take you 20 years to form a single cohesive, and indisputable argument for your case.

    So in the mean time, the title "I voted for the worst president ever..... twice" will be your flag to wave.

    In other words, make solid sensible arguments and stop cheerleading. Read and respond to my post above about how unlikely the only hope you have left being that history will somehow make him look like good in the future, is not likely to pan out. It's a different world. :D

    I mean come on..... that's such a cop out. "History will prove him right"? Who better to know the truth than the people alive today to see it happening right now??? Your only hope is that history somehow screws it up and misrepresents what we all are seeing right now today and know is the truth. And that's sad.....
     
    GeorgeB., Jan 22, 2009 IP
  17. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #17
    You've already made it for me. ;)
    I did not vote for Clinton, no.

    History already has. Our national defense and the millions of lives saved by his humanitarian efforts are only a small part of the bigger picture.

    Believe, reality will hit you one day. When it does, watch out.

    Its not about right or wrong. Its about the lasting affects that a presidents policies have over time. It takes some 20 years or more to fully realize that.

    I rely on reality, not your version of revisionist history.
     
    Mia, Jan 22, 2009 IP
  18. tarponkeith

    tarponkeith Well-Known Member

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    #18
    Wow!

    You believe Clinton to be the worst president ever? Why?
     
    tarponkeith, Jan 22, 2009 IP
  19. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #19
    One reason would be the continuation/expansion of the CRA. What do you think caused the housing/banking crisis?

    I could list more, but it kinda goes without saying. Why repeat the obvious.
     
    Mia, Jan 22, 2009 IP
  20. tarponkeith

    tarponkeith Well-Known Member

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    #20
    Americans believing they're entitled to anything they want; whether or not they can actually afford it.

    So Clinton is the worst president EVER, for expanding on an already existing program? If the program was so bad, why did Bush not do away with it?

    Please do. I'm really hoping that expanding an existing social program alone doesn't qualify Clinton for the title "Worst president ever".
     
    tarponkeith, Jan 22, 2009 IP