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Beware of dodgy 'Native English' writers

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by alexau, Sep 9, 2010.

  1. Senobia

    Senobia Notable Member

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    #61
    Then I guess you'll be going with me when I depart?

    How does your (failed) attempt at wit:

    relate to the OP?


    SEMrush
     
    Senobia, Sep 17, 2010 IP
    SEMrush
  2. allwinners

    allwinners Peon

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    #62
    maybe!

    Well of course it relates to the OP you stupid person. If you read the 3rd sentence in my statement, and the 2nd last line of the OP's post, there is a direct link between the two. Once again I have to point out your shortcomings. This is getting tiresome now.

    You would be best advised (and I won't charge you for this, I am good natured) to spend the time you are on here griping about things that don't concern you (other people's rates and standards) and actually writing for your high paying, top end clients.
     
    allwinners, Sep 17, 2010 IP
  3. parsibagan

    parsibagan Active Member

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    #63
    Sorry, I did not notice this earlier. Could you please explain how did you manage to perform an IP lookup on an email delivered through Gmail? They strip the original IP SMTP (simple mail transfer protocol) and POP (post office protocol) and replace it with a different one.

    Check out the IP addresses of mails in your Gmail inbox or spam folder, for mails originating from different countries, and you will observe that all of them begin with the IP 10.xxx.xxx.xxx which is not allocated to either India or Pakistan. :)
     
    parsibagan, Sep 17, 2010 IP
  4. allwinners

    allwinners Peon

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    #64
    Reading the original headers is one way of determining the origin of any email, and there are probably 3 or 4 other methods that look much deeper than the IP filters. As an example the email that was sent to my inbox informing me of this post, was sent from IP address 216.9.35.61 which in on the coast of America. If I want to pay a fee I can pin point the actual location.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2010
    allwinners, Sep 17, 2010 IP
  5. parsibagan

    parsibagan Active Member

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    #65
    Return-Path: <contact.xxxxx@gmail.com>
    Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of designates 10.227.137.199 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.227.137.199;
    Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of designates 10.227.137.199 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=contact.xxxxx@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=contact.xxxxx@gmail.com
    Received: from mr.google.com ([10.227.137.199])

    You saw that information because the mail was delivered to your Google webmail account. Plus, the sender (digitalpoint) is not using Gmail (webmail version) to send their mails.

    if you receive an email sent from a Gmail account through the web browser, you may not be able to find the real IP address because Google hides the real IP address of the sender.

    However, if the client is using a dedicated mail client like Thunderbird or Outlook for sending their emails through their gmail account, then you shall be able to view the originating IP address of the sender.

    You can send me an email, check for the same on my signature, and when I reply back to your mail, you'll observe that it originates from IP 10.xxx.xxx.xxx.

    Cheers. :)

    P.S.: There is no need for you to pay any fee to determine the exact physical location. You can do it through `whois.' Done properly using the correct procedures you can even find out his address, car number, phone number and what not. :)
     
    parsibagan, Sep 17, 2010 IP
  6. allwinners

    allwinners Peon

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    #66
    wow never knew that about whois! Care to supply some details about the "correct procedure" ;)
     
    allwinners, Sep 17, 2010 IP
  7. DocuMaker

    DocuMaker Active Member

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    #67
    Just to throw in some additional advice: Always request samples prior to accepting work, and if you're suspicious of those samples, ask potential writers to submit a small paragraph of a relevant topic. If that doesn't convince you, engage them into an online chat where you can judge their grasp of the English language and knowledge of the topic they'll write about.

    Rate and location really shouldn't matter as long as the quality is there, so try to focus your efforts on hiring writers who can do the job rather than on whether they're who they claim they are. It's the end result that matters, right?
     
    DocuMaker, Sep 18, 2010 IP
  8. allwinners

    allwinners Peon

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    #68
    Completely agree with this, and all of the people who write for me, at any level, must first submit a sample article of my choosing. This way I can check not only the things you mention here, but also the turnaround time, and the spontaneous creative ability of the writer.

    Then there are people on this thread who very clearly state "they do not supply sample articles" so I guess this is not a format that everybody follows. I find it works, the serious writers have no problem doing it, and as you say, a lot can be learned.

    Oh and if their article is acceptable, they get paid the quoted rate for the article.
     
    allwinners, Sep 18, 2010 IP
  9. parsibagan

    parsibagan Active Member

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    #69
    There are far too many commands. I generally use them from the command prompt.

    Start>run (in the dialogue box that appears, type cmd and then click the enter button)

    In the command prompt type:

    whois www.google.com

    This is just an example... using proper parameters, one can find out information like:

    Domain registrant (with address)
    The administrative contact of the domain (with address & phone number, email)
    The technical contact of the domain (with address & phone number, email)
    When the domain will expire

    Once you have the phone number of the person concerned, you can avail of paid, reverse phone number lookup' services to find out lots of details about them, including their car registration number, their criminal records, their employment history, even how many times they have married and divorced. :)

    I'm sorry, but I cannot provide you with additional details, but the hints I have provided should me more than sufficient. Please be very careful while using these tools... they are powerful no doubt... but can also land you in serious trouble if you make any mistake, even unwittingly.

    P.S.: When you whois any domain, be rest assured that their servers also record that they have been whoised by xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx IP :p
     
    parsibagan, Sep 18, 2010 IP
  10. DocuMaker

    DocuMaker Active Member

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    #70
    As a writer, I can definitely understand why some people may not want to submit a full-fledged article, which is why I recommend asking for a paragraph. If people do require a whole article, they may get a warmer response by offering some type of payment for it beforehand. Many clients follow this strategy as "test" jobs.
     
    DocuMaker, Sep 18, 2010 IP
  11. allwinners

    allwinners Peon

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    #71

    Yes I understand the potential ramifications. I do use various state and federal databases to source the same information when needed, but I was unaware that it could be conducted via whois. As an investigator there are certainly privileged information sources at my disposal, but most require a lot of preliminary paperwork, and as you may be aware in some cases, time is of the utmost importance.

    Thanks for the hints ;)
     
    allwinners, Sep 18, 2010 IP
  12. allwinners

    allwinners Peon

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    #72
    Point taken, but so far I have not experienced any difficulty obtaining a full article as a sample. Sometimes I even assist unsuccessful writers, with the various ways in which they can on-sell their samples. In some cases they have received more money doing this than the client was going to pay them anyway.
     
    allwinners, Sep 18, 2010 IP
  13. Sneakyheathen

    Sneakyheathen Active Member

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    #73
    I hired a non-native speaking writer from India. Nice kid, just needed a little polishing as far as formatting and awkward sentences go. The only "problem" I've found with non-native writers is that they are overly formal. But so are non-native (to them) speakers of their language. Like learning Spanish.

    I think it's ridiculous to honestly consider spending the amount of time it would take to "investigate" the origins of a writer to the extent proposed (looking up their email or their IP, etc). If you know what you're doing, you can tell how well they present themselves. Did they respond in a complete sentence to your job request? No? Then don't hire them.

    The grasp of the English language is not dependent upon growing up in an English-speaking country. Does it help? Yes. But I know hundreds of people I went to school with who would be mistaken for a "non-native" simply because they refuse to read, write properly, or seek assistance. I know plenty of non-natives who write very well.

    As was said, if you want someone of quality, you generally have to pay more than $3. I charged as much as $0.5/word when I was working freelance jobs.
     
    Sneakyheathen, Sep 18, 2010 IP
  14. allwinners

    allwinners Peon

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    #74
    Totally agree with this as well. I have some clients who are simply looking for generally well written content, and these guys will only pay $3-$5 per article. I have others who want well thought out and researched content, specific to a niche, and they may pay up to $20 for a well written article. At the end of the day it is up to the paying client to determine what they want and how they will use it.

    It also depends on what the content is as to how much one would normally charge. I mean a sales letter that is designed to achieve a purpose much greater than simply keeping a reader entertained, will command a much higher rate per word than a simple 500 word article.

    I sometimes use foreign writers with the knowledge that I will have to spend 10-15 minutes proof reading and editing. This is still more lucrative to me, than if my time was used to research and write the article.
     
    allwinners, Sep 18, 2010 IP
  15. snowalker

    snowalker Member

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    #75
    @oo87
    But I payed you 2c/w and you just let me down!

    Kidding! :) I'm still crying after your writing though :(
     
    snowalker, Sep 18, 2010 IP
  16. oo87

    oo87 Well-Known Member

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    #76
    What are you talking about? You left this on my itrader: "Excellent writer. Amazed about the results, most probably I will ask for more help with my new website. Thank you!"
     
    oo87, Sep 21, 2010 IP
  17. Zirkon Kalti

    Zirkon Kalti Well-Known Member

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    #77
    I worked for someone from Pakistan before. He hired me to write articles. From all the customers I deal with, my experience is that those from Pakistan always have problems paying. In addition, they don't have paypal. They will lie and send you funds from different accounts, for example friends account. At one time, Paypal suspend my account because this person from Pakistan use different accounts to send funds. He told me he is not from Pakistan earlier. They always owe money and cannot pay in full. If you are writing articles for a person from Pakistan, there is a chance that he will steal your articles and don't pay. They will give all sorts of excuses. Their country is poor so they will try to cheat you if they can. When I asked him to pay, he told me his friend's paypal doesn't have funds. His friend gives him his paypal so that he can receive funds after my account got suspended because of him. He told me he is finding work on Digital Point so that he can pay me. It happens that he found a work from someone in DP who have actually ask me to write but I cancel the order. This person from Pakistan is really scam. Everytime he gets funds from his client, he refuse to pay me. He will transfer the funds to his bank account before paying me even though he gets the funds because I write the articles for him. He keep owing me more money. When he earns enough, he will send partial funds to me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2011
    Zirkon Kalti, Jan 14, 2011 IP
  18. WebBuddy

    WebBuddy Well-Known Member

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    #78
    Thanks for the thought cerno. +1 for that. :)
     
    WebBuddy, Jan 20, 2011 IP
  19. WebBuddy

    WebBuddy Well-Known Member

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    #79
    I was scammed by a Native web services company owner recently (it's easy to say that one is the owner of a company nowadays - all you need is $10 for hosting your silly website). She asked for 100+ articles and vanished after paying off for barely half of them. It was a sickening time while I worked for her since she pinged me every now and then to place and cancel orders, and I have never come across a ruder person ... Any which way, when I mailed and pinged her repeatedly, she replied back after ONE month saying she is out of work and has no money and said that she'd see if she can arrange my payments. Since then she has not returned a single mail/chat and I don't know when I will get my money. My guess is, NEVER :( Anyways, just wished to point out that even people from US/UK can scam others.

    Just as a sidenote, one of my current clients who is an Indian is paying me bigger bucks than all Native ones and is really communicative and friendly. Goes to show that success, ethics and talent are not copyrights of a single nation.
     
    WebBuddy, Jan 20, 2011 IP
  20. Thales

    Thales Peon

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    #80
    Look, you want perfect grammar. That requires a solid background in the language, some experience in writing and decent proofreading skills.

    You want a well-researched article. That requires a few hours’ worth of research - of sourcing the correct references, reading them and taking notes. No one can do real research in half an hour.

    You want originality. That requires contemplation, developing a structure, preparing an outline before finally writing the article.

    So, by your reckoning, after spending 3-5 hours writing an article with those requirements, is $3, $5, $10 or even $20 sufficient? Sadly, no.

    I personally charge my clients about $200 per article, and I can only do a maximum of two a day. My heart breaks when I think of fellow writers who earns $10 for a whole day's work, so it bothers me to no end when people demands a steak for the price of some fries.

    Just for the record though, professional writers , whether they're from the States or India or China, generally produce the same level of writing, notwithstanding the cultural reference point. It is the wannabe writers that you ought to be wary of. Developing good interviewing techniques is a must for bulk buyers.
     
    Thales, Jan 23, 2011 IP