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Best Desktop WYSIWYG

Discussion in 'HTML & Website Design' started by Sneakyfeet, Apr 17, 2020.

  1. #1
    I've seen wix and weebly - but I want to have possession of my files. I feel like WIX will always have you since they have your files. - Can anyone recommend a desktop program? I am not interested in Dreamweaver - I have that and I don't have the time to go back to hard/hand coding. Plus I am not afraid of paying some $$ for easy to use and powerful tool.
    Thanks
    SEMrush
     
    Sneakyfeet, Apr 17, 2020 IP
    SEMrush
  2. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #2
    Putting the terms "best" and "WYSIWYG" together in the same sentence is a bit like saying "Best Anal Rape".

    They are incapable of semantic markup due to their very nature being "visuals first" -- putting the LAST part of the process at the beginning. Therein everything they vomit up is uselsss incompetent TRASH that flips the bird at usability, accessibility, and any ACTUAL concepts of design. The only thing "powerful' about them is their ability to dupe the ignorant into THINKING they can make a website, and the only thing about them that can be called professional grade tools are the people who promote their use.

    Suck it up, and make the time to code, or get someone to code for you. ALL any "WYSIWYG" is going to do is bend you over the table and take a walk up your strada chocolatta.

    But let me tell you what I REALLY think.
     
    deathshadow, Apr 18, 2020 IP
  3. Sneakyfeet

    Sneakyfeet Well-Known Member

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    #3
    Thanks for wasting your time with your post -
    I'm conducting research for a client who wants to bring another wysiwyg to market. This forum is not the only place
    my team and I are looking for feedback, differentiation and advice from end users etc.
    I know how to code - been doing it since Atari made computers with cassette tapes as floppy disks. (yes that's real).
    I like you don't like or use that type of software - but the clients always pay & on time.

    For every one of use who knows code, who can read it like the Matrix :) - there
    are 20k+ Civilians or Noobs who still revert back to the old drag and drop.

    So the question still stands - If anyone who reads this post still uses WYSIWYG
    Tell me which one you think is the best and why.
     
    Sneakyfeet, Apr 18, 2020 IP
  4. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #4
    So basically you lied in your initial post. An auspicious start indeed. :/

    If you wanted input on MAKING better WYSIWYGS you should have asked that, not pretended you were looking for one to use in the here and now.

    When you said you didn't want to go back to "hand coding" I assumed you didn't know how, since anyone qualified to write a single line of HTML would realize that utter trash WYSIWYGs vomit up; hence why they are universally trash. Seriously, if you understand HTML and CSS, their purpose, and how they work, the ONLY reason you'd be interested in making tools like "Site Builders" or WYSIWYGS is that your entire purpose is to scam people. I would prefer to chalk this up to ignorance over malice.

    Whereas I had static RAM with a battery backup with my COSMAC Elf -- where the user interface was a row of toggle switches, a push-button, and 8 LEDS as I couldn't afford a two digit segmented LED display at the time. Don't try to wave your "history" of computer use around me boy.

    The what and the what? I would hope clients would pay, even if inside a year they either go out of business or need to have the money pit of trash vomited up by a WYSIWYG redone from scratch.

    ... and in the process screw themselves over with non-semantic markup, flipping the bird at accessibility norms, overburdening any CMS the bloated trash code gets sliced up into, failing to maintain separation of presentation from content meaning a complete lack of graceful degradation, etc, etc, etc. You know, the stuff that's now open season on ALL websites in terms of legal woes since the US Supreme Court refused to hear the Domino's case?

    But to that end, you know what I'd like to see out of a WYSIWYG?

    1) SEMANTIC MARKUP with logical document structure. Aka make it advise/lead people down the road of learning what headings are, how to use them, etc, etc.

    2) Separation of presentation from content. This means no presentational use of tags, ID's, or classes. Say what things ARE, NOT what you want them to look like!

    3) Use modern CSS techniques to kick most of the JavaScript to the curb. Don't use JS to do HTML or CSS' job.

    4) Semi-fluid elastic responsive layout. If I have to explain what those three things are, you shouldn't be making tools for web development.

    5) Make certain it keeps telling people that there is MORE to a website than just what it looks like to YOU. Non-sighted users, search engines, visually impaired, physically impaired... HTML is supposed to be for everyone, not the L33t club of the perfectly sighted perfectly able on the perfect size resolution display.

    But again, I don't think a WYSIWYG can do those things since they are by their very nature VISUAL. Hence why everything built with them is usually inaccessible broken pixel metric messes that tell large swaths of users to go F*** themselves. The very notion of starting out with appearance before you even have semantic markup of content of value -- or a reasonable facsimile of future content is utterly and totally back-assward.

    Hence why in the age of SEO and accessibility concerns -- the latter often with legal ramifications -- WYSIWYGS's and "Site Builders" have fallen by the wayside remaining the province of nubes, rubes, and suckers who just don't know any better, and hope they can get away with a sleazy shortcut out of apathy, ignorance, and wishful thinking.

    MIND YOU, I'd LOVE to see some form of tool to speed these things for static site construction, but I just don't think it can be done. It's a completely upside-down approach to site-building that seems to exist for people who don't know what a website is, and don't give a flying purple fish about anything more than "bling bling what it looks like on YOUR display".

    Therein the biggest woe in such site building tools. WYSIONWEEG. What You See Is Often Not What Everyone Else Gets. Nor should it be...
     
    deathshadow, Apr 18, 2020 IP
    sarahk and malky66 like this.
  5. Sneakyfeet

    Sneakyfeet Well-Known Member

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    #5
    Auspicious yes - but the reality is:
    People often give answers depending on who they interpret the interviewer to be.
    I don't make the market - I support my customers' and you are right - there are better ways out there.
    Thanks for the feed back - and thanks for the flashback - I still have some "Punch Cards" that we show off every
    now and then.
     
    Sneakyfeet, Apr 18, 2020 IP
  6. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #6
    why the bullshit in the first post?

    If you'd asked what we wanted from a wysiwyg tool that we're not getting now you would have had an enthusiastic response. There are definitely improvements on wix/weebly and tools like mobilise and divi (wp).
     
    sarahk, Apr 19, 2020 IP
  7. Sneakyfeet

    Sneakyfeet Well-Known Member

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    #7
    like I mentioned after the first post:
    People often give answers depending on who they interpret the interviewer to be.
    After you start working with focus groups - you'll realize this.
     
    Sneakyfeet, Apr 20, 2020 IP
  8. Sneakyfeet

    Sneakyfeet Well-Known Member

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    #8
    OK - So for all the nit picky folks -
    1. What I wrote isn't bullshit - Everything I wrote is true - that is how I feel and just because I can / will use the responses from this population doesn't change the fact that:
    -I've seen wix and weebly - but I want to have possession of my files.
    -I feel like WIX will always have you since they have your files.
    -I am not interested in Dreamweaver - I have DW and I don't have the time to go back to hard/hand coding.
    -Plus I am not afraid of paying some $$ for an easy to use and powerful tool. (or in my case paying Coders/DB Admin/UI/Designers)

    So let's do this,
    If you decide to respond please tell me:
    1. What you want from a wysiwyg tool that we're not getting now.
    2. What wysiwyg are you currently using? (Online html drag & drop /wix/weebly or tools like mobilise and divi (wp).
    3. What is your experience level - total Noob and proud of it or Grandpa Fortran :)
    4. What is your cost pain point if you found a tool that was truly drag and drop + easy publish?
    3. Do you really want a desktop version or is an online pay-per use / subscription / even inexpensive onetime use option your preferred?

    If you want to just write a smart ass response - really - just save your time.
    My employees and I have real world shit happening right now - as does the rest of the world - create good vibes, not waves!!!
     
    Sneakyfeet, Apr 20, 2020 IP
  9. sarahk

    sarahk iTamer Staff

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    #9
    Will your tool give customers possession of their files so they can up sticks and move to a new host?
    How is your team planning to build this tool without any hand-coding?

    No hidden links back (mobirise), no bloat (weebly, wix, divi), latest versions of libraries (mobirise)
    None, haven't found one that's worth the effort. Pinegrow comes close.
    I was more a TRS80 kind of girl.
    I'd probably go up to US$50. I recently had to build a website for my husband and he just couldn't get his head around the design aspects and things got heated. In the end, he did ok sitting on his own dragging and dropping with mobirise. I then had a massive clean up job removing the hidden links and I still haven't tackled the library upgrades. Would I recommend it to a newbie? Hell no.
    Back in the day computer magazines used to have CDs stuck on the front and I'd be installing this and that to see what they did. These days I rarely install software and there has to be a damn good reason to do so. So, would I want a desktop version, probably not. I wouldn't see value in a subscription either. Layout changes are made once and then all the work is adding functionality etc.
     
    sarahk, Apr 20, 2020 IP
  10. Spoiltdiva

    Spoiltdiva Illustrious Member

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    #10
    I am probably the most technically challenged member on this site but.....I would recommend that you have a look at either:
    SQUARESPACE or, SITE123
     
    Spoiltdiva, May 21, 2020 IP