Before I make a great big fuss...

Discussion in 'HTML & Website Design' started by sarahk, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. #1
    There have been some changes at a well promoted, local directory (right up there with yellow pages, might even be better)

    but their html starts with

    
    <!DOCTYPE html><!--
    _ _
    _// // _/_
    / __ _. __. // o _ /
    /___(_)(__(_/|_</_<_/_)_<__
    -->
    <!--[if lt IE 7]><html class="no-js ie ie6 lt-ie9 lt-ie8 lt-ie7" lang="en"></html><![endif]-->
    <!--[if IE 7]><html class="no-js ie ie7 lt-ie9 lt-ie8" lang="en"></html><![endif]-->
    <!--[if IE 8]><html class="no-js ie ie8 lt-ie9" lang="en"></html><![endif]-->
    <!--[if IE 9]><html class="no-js ie ie9" lang="en"></html><![endif]-->
    <!--[if (gt IE 9)|!(IE)]><!--><html class="no-js" lang="en"><!--<![endif]-->
    <head>
    <meta charset="UTF-8" />
    HTML:
    is that even close to being ok? never seen anything like that in my life!

    @deathshadow - I'm sure you'll have an opinion!
     
    sarahk, Nov 7, 2013 IP
  2. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Overlord of no one Staff

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    #2
    It's just failed ASCII art. :)

    If you are talking about the IE stuff, it's pretty gross. Hah
     
    digitalpoint, Nov 7, 2013 IP
  3. robtsts

    robtsts Member

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    #3
    DEATH TO IE!
     
    robtsts, Nov 7, 2013 IP
  4. decadance

    decadance Active Member

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    #4
    if there IE seems likely failed. Uh sorry, been there and got miserably too, mostly
     
    decadance, Nov 8, 2013 IP
  5. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #5
    The ascii art is good for a laugh -- but the stupid IE conditional crap (which looks like an even more bloated wreck than the idiocy Paul Irish somehow convinced people is worthwhile) reeks of some developer trying to sweep their ineptitude under the rugs.

    But I say that about IE conditional comments in general for anything other than loading scripts... Lemme guess, do they have the pinnacle of ineptitude X-UA meta crap in there too?

    Though I've come to expect that type of idiotic BS the moment I see a HTML 5 doctype. What's the CTC for the whole page? 10:1? 20:1?
     
    deathshadow, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  6. Kreshnik

    Kreshnik Active Member

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    #6
    Yes it is perfectly valid as I can see the boilerplate template was used.
     
    Kreshnik, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  7. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #7
    Because of course that fat bloated idiotic pile of shit is 'valid' or even should be used in the first place... *SIGH*

    Seriously, what the hell is in the kool-aid.
     
    deathshadow, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  8. Kreshnik

    Kreshnik Active Member

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    #8
    Well, the boilerplate template is one of the most used templates out there, and yes it should be used because it's build based on best practices. If you ever have faced clients and IE support you would hug the people who've had the idea to add the classes to the html tag. :D
     
    Kreshnik, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  9. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #9
    No, because I can make pages work for clients, for everything from IE 10 to IE 5.5 without any of that crap by using BETTER practices... like semantic markup, separation of presentation from content, semi-fluid elastic responsive layout, etc, etc... In other words all the REAL progress of the past decade and a half as opposed to garbage like boilerplate, blueprint, HTML 5, jQuery, and all the other halfwit nonsense that lets people sleaze out websites 1997-style using the worst code practices of 15 years ago mated to "gee ain't it neat" bullshit that has no place on websites in the first place and on the whole just gets in the way of the user getting to what's REALLY important, THE CONTENT!

    feel the love...

    Just because something is popular doesn't make it good -- see Bette Midler, Whiney Houston, Lady Ga-Ga and Justin Bieber.
     
    deathshadow, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  10. Kreshnik

    Kreshnik Active Member

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    #10
    Well, there's a saying whatever make you happy If you don't thing it's good don't use it and your right no one can tell you wherever something is good or bad, you have to find it out for yourself.

    Be water my friend - Bruce Lee.
     
    Kreshnik, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  11. kk5st

    kk5st Prominent Member

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    #11
    @Kreshnik You're kidding, right? Best practice, no. More like a crutch for those who do not know what they're doing. Of course I can only speak as one who was in the trenches before IE joined the modern world. Believe me, hasLayout, with MSFT's sorry damn near no documentation, meant many lonely hours building test cases and seeking out other researchers' work. The fixes, once we figured out the root cause were almost trivial. So I have faced clients on the issue of IE support and have fought through the MSFT fog and their lack of support for css2.1. One of the things we learned is that using conditional comments were an ugly hack in the vast majority of use cases. There were a few legitimate uses, mostly for hiding IE work-around markup from modern browsers.

    I am retired, but still do some work. What do I tell my clients? I tell them I will support IE<9 but it may cost them extra; maybe a lot extra. IE8 has been succeeded twice over and was MSFT's first effort with a new rendering engine. To support IE<8 will cost extra. I am not saying I will deliver broken pages for these older browsers, I am saying I will not take heroic measures to make them look the same or as close as possible to a new browser. My pages are written to work on any html aware UA. From there everything consists of progressive enhancements.

    I should say that the old timers among us probably don't have many issues with older IEs, we simply developed the habit of coding so as to not break that massive PoS, IE5/6/7.

    cheers,

    gary
     
    kk5st, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  12. Kreshnik

    Kreshnik Active Member

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    #12
    Hmmm, don't miss understand me I myself don't like IE at all, I was referring to boilerplate itself as a good start when starting a project of course there's always something that might not be that good, but it's a good starting template if you chose to use one of course. Those who need to support IE they either will do any css, js hacks or like boilerplate conditional comments to achieve fixed to support IE.

    Respect,
    Kreshnik
     
    Kreshnik, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  13. kk5st

    kk5st Prominent Member

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    #13
    I think I didn't make myself clear. If this 'template' or 'boilerplate' includes those conditional comments, it's stupid. There is no other word for it. There is rarely a sane reason to test for vendor and version.

    g
     
    kk5st, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  14. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #14
    Other than sweeping ignorance and ineptitude under the rug.

    On the whole HTML 'frameworks', CSS 'frameworks' and Javascript 'Frameworks' are ignorant bullshit that belongs nowhere NEAR a sane and rationally coded design; they all only exist to make things harder, slower, and bigger -- and only encourage sleazy broken development practices. Of course with the vast majority of developers STILL sleazing out HTML 3.2 and slapping either 4 tranny or 5 lip-service around it, the popularity of any of the 'go ahead and just sleaze together pages any old way' attitude is hardly a shock.
     
    deathshadow, Nov 9, 2013 IP
  15. averyz

    averyz Well-Known Member

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    #15
    Because someone might be sitting next to a tower running IE and AOL as a home page. lol
     
    averyz, Nov 10, 2013 IP
  16. ryan_uk

    ryan_uk Illustrious Member

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    #16
    What is best build about the above? LOOK closely, very closely:

    
    <!--[if lt IE 7]><html class="no-js ie ie6 lt-ie9 lt-ie8 lt-ie7" lang="en"></html><![endif]-->
    <!--[if IE 7]><html class="no-js ie ie7 lt-ie9 lt-ie8" lang="en"></html><![endif]-->
    <!--[if IE 8]><html class="no-js ie ie8 lt-ie9" lang="en"></html><![endif]-->
    <!--[if IE 9]><html class="no-js ie ie9" lang="en"></html><![endif]-->
    
    Code (markup):
    To me, those closing html tags are idiotic. There is no reason for them to be there.
     
    ryan_uk, Nov 12, 2013 IP
  17. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #17
    wow, I didn't even look close enough to notice those -- GOOD CATCH -- so not only is it endless pointless IE CC ****tardery, the ENTIRE page would be invalid markup since neither HEAD or BODY would be inside HTML on the DOM if a browser actually obeyed the rules -- in fact, none of those classes would/should inherit to HEAD or BODY since a SECOND <html> would be auto-generated/assumed, ignoring the first!

    Though again, entirely the scale of ineptitude I expect the moment I see a HTML 5 doctype; most people who think it offers anything of value not knowing enough about logical document structure, semantic markup, or sane/rational development to open their mouths on the subject! Again, the sleaze out HTML 3.2 any old way crowd and who then slap 4 tranny or 5 lip-service on it and have the balls to call it 'modern' dipshits.
     
    deathshadow, Nov 12, 2013 IP
  18. kk5st

    kk5st Prominent Member

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    #18
    Nice catch.

    g
     
    kk5st, Nov 12, 2013 IP
  19. RosuC

    RosuC Active Member

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    #19
    I'm sorry but I don't understand anything - the script is having no end - maybe is something that is missing but for sure is you can use it at ASCII ART 100% :)
     
    RosuC, Nov 12, 2013 IP