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Banned from Ad Sense - Almost

Discussion in 'Guidelines / Compliance' started by joeychgo, Jun 23, 2005.

  1. ServerUnion

    ServerUnion Peon

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    #41
    I would like the thank my special someone in this thread for the red mark ;) Thats what I get for taking the side of big business.
     
    ServerUnion, Jun 23, 2005 IP
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  2. yfs1

    yfs1 User Title Not Found

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    #42

    Legally you would have to prove the person doing the clicking cost you the money, not Google by banning your account.

    If you can do that, there are already laws in place to handle it.

    Worldwide guidelines wont do anything more but waste money.

    As far as each person being assigned an IP, that will allow the Government to monitor those who stay within the rules while the real criminals will just steal "ip identities", basicly making this "World Police" idea worthless. Not to mention privacy problems as you will need a chip implanted or close all internet cafes and libraries. Therefore keeping a huge demographic off the internet.

    Of course you could do a mug shot when you enter an internet cafe :rolleyes:
     
    yfs1, Jun 23, 2005 IP
  3. fryman

    fryman Kiss my rep

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    #43
    Congrats, Joey. What seemed to have saved your ass was noticing the unusual click pattern and emailing Google rtight away. I have seem posts of people here that say that they check their adsense stats once a week. They must be the stupidest people on earth. The internet is a jungle now, you need to be careful because any crazy wacko out there can suddenly target your site and cause harm. Imagine if you were one of those who only check their stats once a week. You would of never seen the click pattern, you would of just opened your email and find out you have been banned with no clue about what happened.

    I guess this is a lesson for several webmasters out there...
     
    fryman, Jun 23, 2005 IP
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  4. Design Agent

    Design Agent Peon

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    #44
    I just used a free wireless point on a train today.. so what if you do have my IP?

    Google already has a threshold just like every business. Retailers set aside a certain amount for shoplifters, banks for bad debt. This is exactly the same.

    When the media heats up about the levels of fraud then the banning IP etc. can work as an ace up the sleeve temporarily, until then why use it?
    Make some on the click fraud, lose some banning publishers. As long as it balances out for now. Save those kinds of 'increased security measures' until then.
     
    Design Agent, Jun 23, 2005 IP
  5. yo-yo

    yo-yo Well-Known Member

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    #45
    This type of thing is rediculous. How can such a large company hap-hazzardly go around banning people's honest INCOME AND EARNINGS without just cause?? For a lot of people (including myself) adsense earnings makes a significant portion of our income. To have to fear being banned and losing last months (and this months, and future) incomes for DOING NOTHING you could control is quite lame.

    This is one of the reasons I feel there is a big market for Yahoo and MSN to jump right into the game...
     
    yo-yo, Jun 23, 2005 IP
  6. Nintendo

    Nintendo ♬ King of da Wackos ♬

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    #46
    NEWSFLASH, SHOCKING DISCOVERY JUST FOUND: Don't keep your eggs in one basket.
     
    Nintendo, Jun 23, 2005 IP
  7. nddb

    nddb Peon

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    #47
    They basically are, but that doesn't stop people from hacking your PBX and making LD calls. Or taping into your phone line to do it, or many other ways of messing up your phone bill.

    yfs1,

    I assume, if someone was maliciously clicking, they'd be using a bunch of proxies making it hard to trace. But yea, the government shouldn't be involved, google just needs to deal with it how they see fit, but taking legitimate money from their legitimate customers should not be a solution. They should have triggers for if a specific IP clicks so many ads, or so many ads in an hour, and perhaps they do.

    *rambles*
     
    nddb, Jun 23, 2005 IP
  8. Shoemoney

    Shoemoney $

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    #48
    well glad to hear your ok...

    and also good to know google is

    1) being aggressive against spamemrs
    2) not just blanket banning for life.


    It sucks you had to go through it but cant be as bad as a IRS material audit =p
     
    Shoemoney, Jun 24, 2005 IP
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  9. Shoemoney

    Shoemoney $

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    #49
    dont let a little red get ya down... diversity is what makes this board rock
     
    Shoemoney, Jun 24, 2005 IP
  10. jlawrence

    jlawrence Peon

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    #50
    Internet governance seems to be a bit of a topic at the moment.
    Personally, I'd like to see the various governments actually start enforcing their 'real world' laws properly before they think about f'in up the online world.
    There are already quite a few laws which can be used against online fraud - or in this case mailicious attacks. But you have to know the IP address of the person performing the attacks in order to even attempt to trace them. Without that IP address you're on a loser to start with.
    Don't get hoodwinked by all the proxies claims that you can be anonymous. With a court order, you can get the IP address that access that page through the proxy, then another court order to find out who was using that ip address. It would be long winded and very expensive I'd imagaine, but it could be done.
    Governments are pretty crap at resolving 'real world' problems when it come to cooperating on laws, what makes you think anything would be different in the online world.
     
    jlawrence, Jun 24, 2005 IP
  11. Shoemoney

    Shoemoney $

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    #51
    While I agree with what your saying I cant imagine the resources it would take to police this... Unless of course it was a volunteer police force... that worked great with the DMOZ.. for a day or so anyway


     
    Shoemoney, Jun 24, 2005 IP
  12. tlainevool

    tlainevool Guest

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    #52
    Actually its the advertisers who need to set a threshold aside for invalid clicks. If Google didn't police invalid clicks their revenue would go up temporarily, until all the advertisers figured out there were too many bad clicks and stopped getting the conversion rates they expected. Never forget: it's the advertisers who pay the bills and who Google needs to keep happy.
     
    tlainevool, Jun 24, 2005 IP
  13. joeychgo

    joeychgo Notable Member

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    #53
    Not entirely true -

    Google also needs publishers to place the ads on. If another means is available, and publishers start flocking to it, Google will lose revenue because those clicks will go elsewhere.

    Click fraud is a two way street. It affects both publishers and advertisers.

    One question - has anyone who uses adwords ever gotton a 'refund' for invalid clicks?
     
    joeychgo, Jun 25, 2005 IP
  14. Blogmaster

    Blogmaster Blood Type Dating Affiliate Manager

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    #54
    Google does credit advertisers when click fraud is proven.
     
    Blogmaster, Jun 25, 2005 IP
  15. joeychgo

    joeychgo Notable Member

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    #55
    You know this to be a fact? Or you've 'heard'?

    I wonder this because they were about to take my whole check for June - If true, there would have been plenty of advertisers who would have got free advertising out of the deal because there was no fraud.
     
    joeychgo, Jun 25, 2005 IP
  16. yfs1

    yfs1 User Title Not Found

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    #56
    I personally don't know for a fact but when I had a huge content campaign I only saw a refund once and it was tiny.

    The Conversion Rate was negligible (can't say how much but gooseggs come to mind) for that month compared to my extremely healthy search conversion rate.

    And before some new poster who offers rewriting services pop into here, I have a lot of experience with writing copy and I wrote specific ads for each small keyword group (which paid dividends in search)

    I think if Google wants to keep both sides happy then need to reign in this ridiculousness in.

    That being said as much as I think Google is doing the wrong thing, that is their perogative and government shouldn't be involved.
     
    yfs1, Jun 25, 2005 IP
  17. Blogmaster

    Blogmaster Blood Type Dating Affiliate Manager

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    #57
    I do know this to be a fact in some cases. But I also know that it took them some time to sort things out.
     
    Blogmaster, Jun 25, 2005 IP
  18. The Sandman

    The Sandman Well-Known Member

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    #58
    I've heard (i.e. read on the internet) the same thing.

    I was speaking with my AdSense account specialist. He told me that the new CPM ads are running on some sites but that the reporting for them has not been fully integrated into the system. This can cause the number of clicks to be much higher than expected due to completely legitimate reasons.

    Basically, with the new CPM ads an advertiser selects one or more sites they want their banner to run on and "bids" on the CPM rate. If their bid is higher than the revenue that would be generated by regular AdSense ads in the same space the CPM ad shows. Site visitors can still click on the ads of course, and currently those clicks are counted along with the regular clicks... but publishers aren't paid for the CPM ad clicks, they're paid for CPM ad views. So, the CPM clicks are misleading. You can get a run of clicks and register no income from them. Also, if you're running mostly CPM ads, you might get very few clicks and still see your income rising. Of course, since the advertiser specifically selected your site for their ads, you would expect them to be of interest to your users so a lot of clicks shouldn't be surprising.

    Anyway, the bottom line is that if you see some unusual clicking activity, or a change in your income, it could be due to CPM ads which at the moment aren't reported separately and could be very confusing. This had me perplexed for a while, that's for sure. Whether this was going on with Joeychgo's site as well I don't know, but I would consider the possibility. :) The way the clicks are reported right now it's possible even the Google people would initially think there was fraud when in fact it was simply CPM ads.
     
    The Sandman, Jun 25, 2005 IP
  19. joeychgo

    joeychgo Notable Member

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    #59
    Well, I learned that Google didnt reinstate me because I emailed them.

    One thing I did when I was banned. I searched for news about click fraud. I then emailed every news editor / reported I could find. As the stories were all about how poor advertisers are being cheated by click fraud, I explained that innocent publishers were getting caught up in this and becoming victims. I then explained my story.

    One sent me this email in return:




    :D :D :D :D

    Sounds to me like Google didnt want such a story floating around...
     
    joeychgo, Jun 25, 2005 IP
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  20. The Sandman

    The Sandman Well-Known Member

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    #60
    Or, they reviewed your account and found there was no fraud, due to CPM ads or some other factor.

    BTW, I've spoken (via emails) with Barry in the past, and he's a good guy. :)
     
    The Sandman, Jun 25, 2005 IP