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Australian girl Converted to Islam and Now Living in & loving Pakistan

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by kashifyy, Jun 5, 2009.

  1. phyza

    phyza Well-Known Member

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    #41
    I was a bit shocked after reading your posts. I am myself a practique Muslim and a female as well. Don't you see any rights for women in Islam even after reading Surah an Nisa?
    Why people say Islam is strict for women just because it ask you to cover yourself and don't allow you freedom like dating and so on? Maybe that's the only way you can protect yourself because you can see illegal relationships growing on just because of too much freedom which is simply not allowed in Islam.
    If you see Muslim women are ordered to respect their husbands and husbands are given a real important part in their lives. Even if you read "Behishti Zewar" (it's a complete guide for women how to live their life), it says that when you husband come back home, don't ever shout at him and become angry because he just came back for you. If your husband wish to massage your head or legs, don't allow him to do so because he is given a highest position (more than your parents) and will you allow your parents do to so?
    These are just some lights on how a Muslim women should live with her husband and it does not ever mean that she is having a bad life and not allowed to do anything.
    If you see in the Western countries, husbands and wives are usually working and don't have time for each other mostly (not everyone) and they both even got bfs and gfs after marriages as well and it's common but it is not allowed in Islam and Islam offers 4 marriages to protect from illegal relationships and if you think 4 marriages are not equality with women then i must tell you the reason behind that. The population of the World is growing in the ratio of 1:4 (man : woman) because we see women giving birth to females mostly and males mostly die of accidents, incidents etc. but females usually die less. So in this way, if a man don't marry 4 women in the future probably then there must be 3 females remaining unmarried for their whole life so this is just to equal the rights and i am 100% sure that science will prove it some day just as it proves loads of other Islamic/Quranic inventions.
    Now if you take that ayah from Surah an Nisa then you see that it mention "As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance)" You said where is it Quran for women to beat their husbands. Will you really like it if someone allow you to beat your husband? Will you really do so? Don't you think husband is something that is everything for you? Even if you are not a Muslim or not forced to learn Quran or anything related to it, will you still like it that way? If you still say yes, then i must say that May Allah bless your husband :)
    This topic was not at all about discussing religions and comparison of things but this was just about an Australian old woman who converted to Islam and i already mentioned that i met that lady personally and i even know the personal story behind it.
    Well i am not here to fight with you or convince you to do anything but please we (Muslims) or any religion don't like abusing of their religions and it's even not allowed on forums to hurt any one or attack personally so please avoid it.
    If you have doubts about Islam/Muslims/Quran then you should go to a religious scholar and discuss about it and i am damn sure she will explain it to you clearly and if you don't want to do that then please don't abuse and make fun of it :)
    I don't reply to such posts much because i don't want to be a part of such discussions that leads to nothing but i was continuously reading so wanted to reply just once atleast.
    Just my 2 cents
    Thanks
    PHYza
    SEMrush
     
    phyza, Jun 28, 2009 IP
    SEMrush
  2. m42

    m42 Peon

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    #42
    I have the greatest love, admiration, and respect for my husband. Likely because he respects himself, he respects me, and he doesn't beat me when I'm disobedient.... That helps. ;)

    That's propaganda. It's not that common.

    I'm afraid you've been misinformed. The male to female ratio is actually quite even. In fact, I believe males have the slightest advantage.

    An exception to this is China. The rate of infanticide was extremely high after the Chinese initiated the "one child" rule. Chinese couples wanted male babies so badly that people began to kill/abort the girls. Fast forward a generation. Men want to get married and there aren't enough women to go around.

    These statistics are available on the internet.

    You've completely missed the point here. The point was not that I wish to beat my husband, the point was to show that women must submit to men and therefore cannot be considered their equals.
     
    m42, Jun 28, 2009 IP
  3. indyguidedotinfo

    indyguidedotinfo Notable Member

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    #43
    screw the debate post more pics of shriya .. WOW!
     
    indyguidedotinfo, Jun 28, 2009 IP
  4. phyza

    phyza Well-Known Member

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    #44
    Its good to see that you love your husband and he respects you as well but it's not all the same for everyone :) Good and bad is everywhere for sure and not every husband beat their wives when they are disobedient but they are allowed to do so in severe cases and i have completely no problem with it

    I am not misinformed and right now ratio is somewhere between 2-3 women per man but it will be soon 1:4 ratio and i told you science will also prove it one day so just wait for the right time.. Male die more because of accidents,blasts and so on but women hardly die and usually natural deaths only so that's the most important reason why males are so less.
    These stats are also available on internet :) I myself took part in a sheet project that was by Lhrla, a company working for women and children who lost their families and in that sheet project we counted women and men in our city and other cities of our country and ratio was more likely 1:3 (male:female) so i am not misinformed but talking about my own experience and info as well :)
     
    phyza, Jun 28, 2009 IP
  5. mdvasanth86

    mdvasanth86 Notable Member

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    #45
    @m42

    It is not compulsory that you need to marry 4 women if you are a muslim.

    Other than Osama Bin laden and few other notorious people , I dont know any muslim having even two wives.


    Even if you plan to marry more than one , you will have to treat everyone equally.
    You cannot spend more time with the new wife as she is new and forget your first wife.

    Thats not allowed.
     
    mdvasanth86, Jun 28, 2009 IP
  6. new

    new Peon

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    #46
    You seem to be too concerned for Christians, what about the mocking that you are doing to islamic values ?
     
    new, Jun 28, 2009 IP
  7. new

    new Peon

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    #47
    you can't eat your cake and have it too.
     
    new, Jun 28, 2009 IP
  8. acash

    acash Peon

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    #48
    there are lots of police cases in my city where white girls are abducted to pakistan , and indian girls and forcefully ebcome muslim by the islamic fundamentalist...then after 5 years..they are brainwashed and consider themselves muslim and pakistani

    this is under fear
     
    acash, Jun 28, 2009 IP
  9. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #49
    It would take a lot of brainwashing to accept the status of a second class citizen and to actually believe it's ok if your husband beats you, because you just deserve it. In the swat valley with sharia law:

    Taliban restricts womens education

    Taliban in swat valley force women to marry militants

    Banning girls from school, forcing women inside, banning entertainment

    Women's day has no meaning for terrified women of swat valley

    women living in Malakand area are not allowed to be or speak in public by themselves, they must cover their heads, and thousands of girls are likely to now be unable to go to school,

    Islam is inherently oppressive of women, but even worse in it's fundamentalist state where islamic law is implemented. Phyza, would you welcome sharia law? If anyone here would like to defend sharia law, start by listing any islamic country currently under sharia where women are not brutalized and treated as unequal second class citizens.
     
    Rebecca, Jun 28, 2009 IP
  10. phyza

    phyza Well-Known Member

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    #50
    Rebecca can you please tell me what is sharia law for you?? How you take Sharia?? :)
     
    phyza, Jun 28, 2009 IP
  11. Polite teen

    Polite teen Guest

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    #51
    Women in Islam:

    God said what means:

    23. And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour.

    24. And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was small."


    a man came to the prophet PBUH and said:

    Who is the one who has more right to be a good friend for?

    He said: your mother
    He said: then who
    He said: your mother
    He said: then who
    He said: your mother
    He said: then who
    He said: your father.

    To be continued.....
     
    Polite teen, Jun 28, 2009 IP
  12. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #52
    Let me ask you a question. Under your understanding what is the punishment in an Islamic country under Sharia when a Muslim man decides he wants to change religion?
     
    browntwn, Jun 28, 2009 IP
  13. m42

    m42 Peon

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    #53
    Somehow I think you'd have more of a problem with it if you were the one being beaten.

    So what you're telling me is women over the age of 65 are looking for husbands and resorting to polygamy? Here are the current stats by age group. Men still outnumber women in Pakistan.

    at birth: 1.05 male(s)/female
    under 15 years: 1.06 male(s)/female
    15-64 years: 1.05 male(s)/female
    65 years and over: 0.88 male(s)/female
    total population: 1.04 male(s)/female (2009 est.)

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/PK.html


    I'm aware of this.

    I know several people who have more than one wife, including people in my own family. Their first wives were devastated.

    If you're male, imagine how you'd feel if your wife, or the woman you wanted to marry took an interest in another man.

    *laugh* That question makes you look like a hypocrite. Would you care to revise it? ;)

    Submitting to a man against my will really isn't cake; it's more like eating bullsh!t. You're more than welcome to my slice of that "cake." Bon appétit!
     
    m42, Jun 28, 2009 IP
  14. hanz

    hanz Peon

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    #54
    since when is this a fact? Just because Quran says so does not make it automatically better than every other religion. Ever heard of "Freedom of religion"? This means that everybody may chose their own religion and all religions are equal.

    and I am not a vegetarian or animal rights activist, but I do not think that cruelty towards animals is right. Why should you beat your cattle? Get a punching bag if you absolutely need to beat something.
     
    hanz, Jun 28, 2009 IP
  15. m42

    m42 Peon

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    #55
    Quite true! The point was to illustrate that you don't motivate women the way you motivate/move cattle. Cattle/Horses have thick skin. They feel it when you whip them or smack them, but it likely won't hurt them.

    A woman, on the other hand, has much thinner skin. She will not only feel it, but it will more than likely hurt her.

    We might be getting a bit off topic with this discussion. Consider starting a new thread on the topic? ;)
     
    m42, Jun 28, 2009 IP
  16. Vebtools

    Vebtools Well-Known Member

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    #56
    Men are not superior to women and women are not superior to men in Islam. Allah Almighty makes it perfectly clear that those superior are those who have more taqwa (god fearing consciousness) In Islam, men and women do not have equal rights, but their rights are different because of their nature. Their rights are equally balanced.

    For example if a women earn money, she is the owner of it, she can spend the whole money on her. But when a man earn money its not his property its property of his, his wife and kids....

    now let me know who has more rights?

    same in other examples

    Let me quote Dr Zakir Naik from his lecture "Women's Right in Islam Modernizing or Outdated?"

    As I said in the beginning of my talk, Islam believes in equality between men and women - Equality does not mean identicality.

    Suppose in a classroom 2 students, student ‘A’ and ‘B’, during an examination both come out first - Both secure 80% marks - 80 out of 100

    Out of the hundreds of students, 2 come out first ‘A’ and ‘B’

    When you analyze the question paper, the question paper has 10 different questions, each carrying 10 marks.

    In question 1 student ‘A’ got 9 out of 10, and student ‘B’ got 7 out of 10 - So in question 1 student ‘A’ was higher than student ‘B’.

    In question 2, student ‘A’ got 7 out of 10 and student ‘B’ got 9 out of 10,
    - Student ‘B’ was higher than student ‘A’ in question number 2.

    In question 3 both of them got 8 out of 10, both were equal

    So when we add up the marks of all the ten questions, both student ‘A’ and ‘B’ got 80 out of 100

    So in short, student ‘A’ and student ‘B’ are over all equal

    In some question ‘A’ is higher than ‘B’, in some question ‘B’ is higher than ‘A’, in others both are equal

    In the same fashion, taking the example that since Allah has given man more strength - Suppose a thief enters the house will you tell, ‘I believe in women’s rights - I believe in women’s rights’ - will you tell your mother, your sister and your daughter, to go and fight the thief?’

    No, but natural you’ll fight him - If required they may interfere - under normal circumstances since Allah has given you more physical strength, you have to go and tackle the thief.

    So here, in physical strength, man is one degree higher than the woman

    Let us take another example where… where it comes to giving respect to the -where it comes to respecting the parents - The children are supposed to respect the mother 3 times more than the father.

    Here the women have one degree higher than the men - Over all both equal

    oh so you want to say there should be no punishment for any wrong thing :eek: are you nuts!! there is always punishment of sin or wrong thing in every religion.

    read Qurah Nisa ayaat again and again to understand why and when a husband can beat a woman and dont forget to read Ayaat 19

    Wasalam
     
    Vebtools, Jun 28, 2009 IP
  17. new

    new Peon

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    #57
    and where does it happen more ? in Muslim societies or in West ? In these cases who protects you Islam or western values ?



    *laugh* That question makes you look like a hypocrite. Would you care to revise it? ;)

    actually you are being a hypocrite! mocking Islam and then teaching us to respect christians.
     
    new, Jun 28, 2009 IP
  18. Vebtools

    Vebtools Well-Known Member

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    #58
    the ans available in the ayaat you shared in your first post (Surh Nisa)

    Wasalam
     
    Vebtools, Jun 28, 2009 IP
  19. Vebtools

    Vebtools Well-Known Member

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    #59
    so, for this you blame Islam? Allah. (Read Nisa 3rd Ayaat)

    I have noticed that you are just blaming Islam for mistakes (sin) of Man


    thats why Islam give right of separation (Khula) to woman

    Wasalam
     
    Vebtools, Jun 28, 2009 IP
  20. m42

    m42 Peon

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    #60
    You've taken one exception and attempted to turn it into the rule. What you've just described is the equivalent of a gilded cage. In essence, it provides the illusion of freedom. For example, you are free to play with your toys, unimpeded, as long as you play in your little box. The toys and everything in the box belong to the women, but the men have the only key to that box, etc. :)

    So...how are men punished when they disobey women? ;)

    I'm failing to comprehend how I am not being clear.

    You can tell me that Allah says men and women are equal. You can tell me that Allah says people with more taqwa are superior. You can tell me that men are only allowed to beat their women under specific conditions. I am not disagreeing that Islam teaches all of these.

    I am telling you Islam is riddled with contradictions. I am telling you that beating women until they are forced to obey is a form of subjugation. Subjugation, by definition, makes one party dominant over the other. In this case, the designated dominant party is the male. This makes the woman the subjugated party, and thus less equal.

    I don't believe you are dense. You have already proven yourself to be quite patient. But this really isn't rocket science.

    Muslim values don't protect people. They stone people for adultery.

    If a Muslim man wants a girlfriend, he can have one and no one will usually say anything.

    If a Muslim woman wants a boyfriend, she is either locked up by her family, shamed, in rare cases forced to kill herself, in rare cases killed by family for honour, or stoned for adultery.

    The West if far less judgmental about it.

    Uh huh. You just keep telling yourself that the reason you insulted Christians is because I was "mocking" Islam, mmmkay shnukums? :p
     
    m42, Jun 28, 2009 IP