Atheist Problem 2008

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Silver89, Jan 26, 2008.

  1. simplyg123

    simplyg123 Well-Known Member

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    #141
    You are right to a point, I read the statistic somewhere, and could not find it, but i found several others from fox news, CNN, and then the graph that i found, which explained very clearly that the majority of people believe in a god, I thought it was close enough. if they believe in this God you would naturally assume, they in some way pray to it or talked to it, or had some type of relationship with it.

    Its been pointed out to me, i have problems expressing my thoughts in words, if that is the case i apologize, personally i dont think that is the case. I do not trip up on anything. If i think you misunderstand me, i will clarify what i say. Sorry if this is a burden to you or any other.

    to add:

    Surveys of U.S. adults and teenagers by Barna Research Ltd. from 1991–2001 revealed the following statistics about people's prayer habits:

    Who prays?

    82 percent of adults and 89 percent of teenagers pray in a normal week.
    88 percent of women and 75 percent of men pray in a typical week.
    People living in the South and Midwest pray more than those living in the West and Northeast (around 86 percent to 76 percent, respectively).
    96 percent of born-again Christians pray weekly, while 72 percent of people not describing themselves as born again pray on a weekly basis.
    source: http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/Having-a-Chat-with-God.id-1628,subcat-RELIGION.html


    The Gallup Poll confirmed earlier surveys that found Americans to be a prayerful people, with 87 percent praying at least once a week. source: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E01E1DD143EF93AA35757C0A962958260

    Need More?
     
    simplyg123, Feb 1, 2008 IP
  2. peepin2me

    peepin2me Well-Known Member

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    #142
    I agree the stats quoted by you are very true. But unless you digg deeper into these results, statistics are useless. As one Wise Statesman once said
    lies, damn lies, and statistics...

    In statistics there are two types of errors, Alpha and Beta

    Now lets consider the Null Hypothesis as
    Null Hypothesis - God Exists
    Alternative Hypothesis - God Does not exist

    There are four possible scenarios possible
    1) True Null Hypothesis is proved correct
    2) True Null Hypothesis is proved incorrect
    3) False Null Hypothesis is proved correct
    4) False Null Hypothesis is proved incorrect

    Lets analyse each of these scenarios now

    Case 1 - You believe God exists and its is proved that he really exists - You go to heaven, with beautiful flowers and Virgins all around you
    Case 2 - You believe God exists but its proved that he does not exist - No heaven, No hell (since there is no god at all)
    Case 3 - You believe God does not exist and its is proved that he really does not exist - No heaven, No hell
    Case 4 - You believe God does not exist and its is proved that he exists - You burn in Hell

    Now given the above 4 scenarios, there is a 25% chance of each of the above case being true. Two of the cases are correct, while two of the cases are termed errors. A concept in statistics says that it is impossible to minimise type I as well as type II errors. Hence we make sure the more dangerous error is not committed.

    Now, lets see which of the above 2 errors are more dangerous
    Case 2 - You believe God exists but its proved that he does not exist - No heaven, No hell (since there is no god at all)
    Case 4 - You believe God does not exist and its is proved that he exists - You burn in Hell

    Obviously, most people feel that Case 4 is much more dangerous. Hence most people want to remove any chance of them committing a Case 4 error, at the risk of committing a Case 2 error. That, my friend, is the reason for a large part of the 87% of people being religious.

    As mentioned earlier, religion works on the basis of a person's fear psychosis. People have preceived that Case 2 is the safer error to commit. However, history stands testimony to the fact that Case 2 assumption has been the number 1 cause of hatred and violence, in this world.

    Lets atleast teach our kids (the next generation) to ask questions and use logic, instead of blindly believing what the previous generations believed. This I'm sure, will make this world a better place to Live.

    P.S. - I'm not an Athiest. I'm an agnostic. Show me proof and I'll believe whatever you say!
    I say I'm an Agnostic because science till now has not been able to completely rule out the possibility of a divine presence. Though science has been able to prove that mankind evolved from animals, which evolved from single cell organism, it has not been able to completely prove the evolution of that single cell organism. For continuous evolution (based on natural selection) to happen, there must be a starting point. How did the single cell organism, the first form of life on earth, appear?
    On the other hand, just because science hasn't been able to explain something yet, one cannot automatically come to the conclusion that there is a divine hand. I'm sure time will answer all our questions and clear our doubts. All I hope, is people don't become too narrow minded to accept facts, even after seeing conclusive evidendce.
     
    peepin2me, Feb 1, 2008 IP
  3. simplyg123

    simplyg123 Well-Known Member

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    #143

    What you are claiming is only theoretical, it does make since,but it is still only a theory. And is worth just as much as my statistics.

    The process they come to believe, wasn't questioned in the first place, the question at hand was how many believe. My stats still stand, because it doesn't matter what made them believe, whether it be faith, tradition, fear, they still believe, which is the point I'm making.

    Another thing i would like to point out is that you say case 2 leads to hate and violence, maybe in some religions, but mine commands us to peace and submission. It is man, that seeks wars, not God
     
    simplyg123, Feb 1, 2008 IP
  4. peepin2me

    peepin2me Well-Known Member

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    #144
    You are right. Your stats still stand. Infact, I never disputed them in the first place. I only suggested the reason for the stats being skewed towards majority of the people being religious.
    Assuming, you are a Christian, you might want to read about CRUSADES
    Pope is considered to be Divine and his actions and words are considered to be that of the Holy Spirit.
    All, but 1 crusade (the sixth one), started with the blessing of the Pope.

    Crusades were fought against Muslims, pagan Slaves, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars, Hussites, and political enemies of the popes.

    Cheers
    Roy
     
    peepin2me, Feb 1, 2008 IP
  5. simplyg123

    simplyg123 Well-Known Member

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    #145

    The actions made in the crusades were against everything Jesus teaches, i do not believe in Catholicism at all, i think it is the another form of false religion. The new testament, teaches us to submit to all authorities, unless they try to force you to sin. Jesus teaches us to turn the other cheek, when being slapped. Not to fight, not to kill. The crusades was brought on by mans desires, not Gods.
     
    simplyg123, Feb 1, 2008 IP