Until we receive our glorified body we will not be able to see God, its not he that cant show himself, it us that cant see him. This is why the holy spirit is needed, this is why God came down as Jesus in the flesh, we could not handle the sight of God in his Godly state. So he shows himself through Jesus, and the spirit. Yes 2008 and we still believe. Why do you suppose that is? Perhaps its that we that do believe in God, in fact, know that he exist. I have a relationship with God because he called me, and i turned toward him and away from sin. If you do not have that relationship, its because he hasn't called you. Until you change your denial and train of thought, you will never have a relationship with him. Its not lies, its not made up.
It always amazes me that god always chooses some people he calls and others he doesn't care about. Maybe it's his plan? But then, where is our free will, when he has already planned everything? I believe in reason. I won't worship god until he shows himself and even then I wouldn't probably follow him (just read the old testament and you find out how cruel he is... wiping out whole cities just because they ain't christians... I don't consider that to be example of loving father). At least we are living in secular age, no more indoctrination and dictate from church.
Who said anything about free will, the bible says we come into this world doing the will of Satan, and that perhaps he may or may not free us from his snare. You dont chose God, He chooses you, once you are saved you have a free will, you can choose to do the will of God, or you can defy him, and be accountable. God is not just a loving father, he is love and he is wrath, he is the judge of all. He created us, the fact he could destroy us in a flash, should make us want to please him more. We work out our salvation in fear and trembling.
Now that's free will, either do the will of god or burn in hell. The thing is you doesn't have any free will at all because god will decide about you. Why does he want people who doesn't accept him to burn in hell? Because he's insane. First he create us, he claims we have free will but he decides instead of us. Don't like his opinion? No problem, he has a nice place ready for you full of torture and pain, yeah now that is good god. It's just all ridiculous. God creates the world in 7 days (lol... proven to be false... it took quite more days to create the world). Then he allows Adam and Eve to do anything they like but one thing. Don't touch his tree. What the hell is that? Why? Why? What kind of stupid test it is? Tree that contains wisdom of god? .... Why did he put the tree in there in the first place? If he didn't want Adam and Eve to eat from it, why the hell even put it there. No logic behind that. Then he just forces them to leave the garden and as a gift he gives them many painful things (like childbirth pain he gave all women as a gift... yeah loving father...). Then in whole old testament, even though we are supposed to have free will, he shows up now and then and give people his orders. When they don't obey, he kills them (when they're lucky). And so on it goes, more absurdities. Great flood, crossing the Red sea, disasters in Egypt. And suddenly, in new testament, he stops showig up and killing people and there comes this trinity (1 = 3 ... ridiculous from mathemathical point of view). God is cruel, no matter what you think, you cannot deny all atrocities he did throughout old testament. That alone should show you he isn't worth worshipping. Then just look throughout medieval times, when the church had political power... dark ages they call it. And for a good reason. Throughout centuries, church denied all possible cultural advance, no schools, no Bible translations (so people didn't understand what is their religion about...), burning books to keep people dumb and uneducated, inquisition etc. Besides that, Bible is full of illogical facts and confusing stuff. When put together, it doesn't make sense at all. It denies evolution, it denies physics etc.
If it's all part of god's plan then why does it matter what I do. Everything is planned right? Seriously do you read what you type. Each sentence I read is filled with shit you've made up. It's so convenient how you can tell us what god wants. See where I come from people who talk to things that don't exist are insane. On the internet they're called theists I suppose.
Hey, man, why so angry, try keeping this debate polite. I have nothing personal against christians. I am just questioning the religion itself.
This isn't a debate. He's simply making up things to explain his position. I have no problem with anyone willing to sit down and have a reasonable discussion.
If you are saved, you have the will to do good or do evil Because they are disobedient, rebellious, pagans that refuse to obey their creator. He is God. Their destruction is his justice. It just like government, obey or go to jail, is that insane too? Though you have twisted the truth to death, If you actually took the time to study, you may see that the bible is genius, It takes much meditation, prayer, and the holy spirit, to fully comprehend the wonders of Gods word. The things he did in the old testament will also be done at the end of time. He hasn't changed, he's just given us another chance, through Jesus, yet he knows we (man) will still rebel, and has already described the destruction of the world in revelations. Salvation through fear and trembling. We should obey God through Love and Fear. There was a time when churches used religion as a control device, but many realized this, and separated from it. This is why you now have protestant churches. The more i read the bible, the more amazing it becomes. It is far from senseless, it is in fact genius. Books written by people that never met, at different times, yet they say the same things, and state the same prophecies. My friend Christianity was not invented by me. I know what God wants, only by reading his word, you should try it some time. Where do you come from ? 90% of the people in this world pray to God. You, and other non believer are the minority. Look it up, it will save you from making foolish statements in the future.
Ha you wish buddy. Nowhere near 90% of people in this world pray. You can make up all the religious non sense you want, but if you want to throw out numbers back them up with sources. Maybe 90% of people claim to be of some sort of religion, but nowhere near 90% pray.
My point was they believe in a God, whether they pray or not isn't really relevant. Heres your source http://www.gallup-international.com/ContentFiles/millennium15.asp
Ok well if it's not relevant why bring it up? You cite 90% as a reason to believe in god. Well the majority of people use XP, is that the best OS? The majority of people voted for Bush, was he the best? Majority voted for hitler was he the best? Mob rule isn't necessarily what's rational. Yet another one of your silly logical fallacies.
Look kid, you talk as if everyone who believes in God is insane,im merely pointing out the majority, is according to you, insane. And im also pointing out that, that, just cant be true. I seriously doubt the majority of the people in the world are insane, and you and the other 4 or 5% are the sane ones, so you need to come up with another reason, why so many people believe in God, something other then their sanity.
Looks to me like you have only brought false accusations and assumptions, which i have shot down rather effectively.
Yea if you consider poor grammar, made up statistics, and an abundance of logical fallacies effective, then you're doing a great job You lost all credibility when you admitted nothing you say is logical..
Please show me where i said "nothing i say is logical", if you can show me that quote ill quit now, ill leave DP and never come back. If you cant it will show how deceptive your being. Its just another lie. I never used poor grammar, perhaps a mistake here or there, I'll admit I'm not the best at typing. I never made anything up, i posted sources for everything you requested, if i missed something, that you need a source for, please let me know, and i will be glad to provide them. Nothing i said was made up at all. You accuse me of using "logical fallacies" im no expert on the subject, but i don't believe your using that term correctly, in fact i believe its somewhat of an autoantonym, you may have to look that term up as well. Again I never said, "everything i say is illogical", what i said was to accept God you have to think with an illogical mind. I admit they may sound a bit unclear, so i cleared the meaning up by explaining, that what i meant was, you need a mind that is above and beyond logic, and i stated an example, just to clear up any straggling misunderstandings, that example was, it is not logical for a man to return from the dead. It is in fact illogical. So to believe in God, or Christ, you must think beyond logic. Hope this clears things up for you, but honestly i doubt you want it to be clear.
I'm not even going to bother to reply to this thread again. I think you've been preaching so long you've actually bought in to your lies. Once you start telling me what you think god wants is when you start lying. Also you can claim "super natural" is higher than logic, but again you're the only person who would say that. You claim to back up your nonsense with facts. Well I've seen none. I don't think you've linked to many if any websites in this whole thread. Feel free to point all posts out which you can actually back up your claims. Remember posting random images made in mspaint and excel doesn't count. If you can't even admit that your posts have abysmal grammar, then it's time to go get that GED.
LoL, you are quite comical, please refer back to the chart i posted, along with the link to the website that you say i never posted. Also, are you going to back up your lies? You have stated i said things that i didn't, which is against DP rules by the way. You have said i am making things up, when i am just telling you what it says in the bible. I assure you it is not made up. History and archeology will testify to that. Do yourself a favor and dont reply, your just digging yourself a grave of deception and lies
stand back, He has a graph! So let me get this right simplyg. You made the claim that "90% of the people in this world pray to God", You then went to look for a graph that supported this claim, And when you couldn't find one you resorted to posting a graph that only shows the percentage of people who claim to be of a religious denomination. Then when someone points out that the graph you posted doesn't in any way support the claim you made you then decide that the amount of people who pray isn't relevant anymore. I'm sure some points have been made by you at some point or another, But what with the amount of times you comically trip up your own arguments it makes debating hard and laughing very, very easy. The funny thing is. Even if you had the capacity to find statistics that back up your facile points it would only be an argumentum ad populum anyway.