Unless you are discussing Global Warming, right? In the case of Global Warming, the "magic man" with the crow bar that has a "ludicrous, unsupported explanation" is Al Gore, right?
But that is the gist of the pro-atheist argument on this thread, to wit: God is not a shortcut for science, and the God does not exist because Science can explain everything. The attitude of most (not all) of the atheists on this discussion, is this hypocritical argument: 1. Atheists say that there is no God because you cannot prove with science that God exists 2. Atheism cannot prove using science how the Universe was created, nor can atheism explain Consciousness One big think I learned from the Four Gospels is Jesus' brilliant use of oratory and logical argument. The fastest way Jesus used to disprove the other person is to point out the hypocrisy. And the atheist argument promoted here is, at it's base, a hypocritical argument -that is, they demand a proof from deists that they refuse to apply to themselves. That's not correct. If you look through the atheist arguments on this thread, you'll see a common theme that in the belief that deism and science cannot exist together - that a rational, intelligent person would reject deism. Rub3X even fabricated a completely phony graph of "Mean IQ vs. Religiousity". When I pointed Rub3X's extreme intellectual dishonesty in inventing that graph and using a made-up word (Religiousity) that is not in any OFFICIAL dictionary, he fled from this discussion rather than admit his LIE. And, to my best recollection, each atheist has run cowering from any suggestion that science and God need each other. Atheism, as promoted on this thread, claims to substitute absolute faith in science in place of faith in a God - but scientific arguments by Deists are completely rejected by the atheists here, most of whom seem to be lacking in any significant scientific knowledge. On this thread, for most (not all) posters, atheism is a disguise for bigotry as smelly as last week's rancid runny liquid diarrhea, coupled with a sad rejection of Love, compassion, and The Truth.
Yes, it is correct, else we wouldn't be going around in circles. It is only incorrect, as you put it, if you believe that statement to be true, which I don't. Science, Atheism and Theism are all completely different issues. Trying to argue all three makes matters so complicated that nothing worthwhile is ever said. Besides, we lost site of the actual topic of this thread many, many pages ago. That may be so. I don't see it that way though. I Don't believe that Atheism, Theism, religion or deities have a place in scientific debate. All the former are philosophical topics whereas science is mathematical. Debating all of them together is ridiculous as Science and philosophy are just too unrelated to make any sense. It's like grouping apples, oranges and bananas with a pencil and no-one will learn anything or get anywhere. Science isn't in place of god and cannot explain anything atheistic or theistic because they're unrelated and within different dimensions. Science uses experiments to increase the likelihood of an idea being correct or incorrect. That's it. Anything beyond that won't work. You can't put it in place of anything abstract because it's the antithesis of science itself. You could use science as a method of predicting the probability of a philosophical idea, but you can't pit them up against one-another as science isn't something that can be - it's not an entity. Like I said before, we should be debating science or religion. Not put them up against each other because it's meaningless. Debates are destined to fail when subjectivity is thrown in with objectivity. What's the point? I hope what I said makes sense to everyone, it does to me at least. Truth is only absolute if you believe it to be. Rejection of absolute truth doesn't make you any less moral than anyone else though, it just usually means people live by personal truths.
it doesn't, But it is still the best shot we have of figuring things out. That was what the OP asked, wasn't it? what our explanations are? Well, our explanations are scientific ones. Because that's what science is. it's the way of finding out what is true, how things work and why things are the way they are. Now, if someone does eventually figure out where the universe came from it will be, by definition, a scientific answer. but in the mean time any old unsupported explanation you make up is not a sufficient temporary replacement. Like i have said, some of us prefer no answer to a made up one. You know agnostics don't have a belief in god, right? they are "atheist" as i am. Are you having a tantrum because you used the wrong word and have now been caught out? To disbelieve in something does not imply that the person knows that something doesn't exist. i refer you back to my point about fairies. You don't believe that they exist, even though you have no way of knowing. It's exactly the same thing. if you don't want me to keep pointing out that you were wrong accept you made a mistake, retract what you said and restate your assertion using the correct language. but under no circumstances am i going to let you get away with it. stop being wrong then. No i think ill carry on as normal, thanks. if you don't like it feel free to stop reading my posts and replying to them.
stOx, I just want to take a moment out to thank you. Not only did you clarify that you are a pimply faced teenager with all the answers, but you put a smile on my face and I should almost give you some rep points for that. To it, you offered: as an answer to why you preach. Interestingly, that is the same thing the Catholic Church told people as they tortured people for not sharing their beliefs. And of course you provided the gem that really spells out the true depth of your knowledge. I asked you earlier if you knew the difference and clearly you don't. Besides, you are not even a real Atheist. You are simply a bigot who believes repeating something over and over makes it true. Hey, from the other thread, about belief systems making people feel better, I'll throw this in because I'm a nice guy and I know it's what you really want at the end of the day. "You're right. Science does support Atheism and defy Theism. Religious people and theists are idiots who deserve derision." Feel better? Imagine how good being right would feel if you actually were able to prove it! Get a grip, get a clue, and then come back with something new. Hey, that rhymes! You also might want to read the posts of your fellow Atheists here. The consensus is in. You posts are filled with bigotry.
I'll make it as simple as i can for you.... do agnostics hold a belief in a god? yes or no? If you feel confused, this is the bit where theists try to evade the simple question put to them in plain English.... so feel free to do that
ag⋅nos⋅tic    /ægˈnɒstɪk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ag-nos-tik] Show IPA –noun 1. a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. You are, by definition, not an Agnostic, yet you claim to be Atheist. You claim the two are the same, yet you don't understand the meaning of either word. You claim Einstein was an Atheist, and again you are proven wrong. Why don't you just go back and re-read only the portion of my last post where I said "You are right!". It will save me the trouble of having to reiterate the same facts, over and over and over again.
I see you took my advice and avoided the question.... so ill ask it again. does an agnostic hold the belief that a god exists? Yes or no. Your reluctance to answer this simple question says so much more that answering it ever could.
If you can't glean the answer from a dictionary definition, what good would it do for me to explain it to you?
if you can't prove that God doesn't exist , and just keep repeating that there is no God without any proof , then it mean you believe in that without a proof. By the other word you believe in it . There is no difference between believing in God and not believing (denying God) in God , if we will look at both of them as a system . So Atheists believe that there is no God , it can be called believe system which is denying God
At the end of the day, I'm sure there are more important things to do than believe or disbelieve in something like this. If someone on the street asks me if I believe in god, I'll now give them "I don't care", because it really isn't important. It's best to judge people on their actions, not beliefs. Heh, it has taken one hell of a long time to decide that. Oh, and asking an agnostic whether he believes in a deity is creating a paradox, just like Schroedinger's cat - he believes, yet doesn't at the same time, which carries the same notion as not knowing, or accepting the inability to know. Atheism is to Agnosticism, what Nihilism is to Existentialism.
You are still evading the question... Do they hold a belief that god exists? yes, or no? I love how you are unable, through the weakness of your own argument, to answer a simple question put to you. If they think it's impossible to know if a god exists then, surely, they can't hold the belief that one does exist, right?
Actually I answered the question. Your incapability to understand the answer is not my concern. You, however, are evading the question. Quit stalling and answer. There is no shame in admitting it, and it would help explain your rage.
well I think I've made my point, or more precicely, you made it for me I love it when I'm able to force the believers into avoiding giving simple answers to straight forward questions, I find it's the best way to expose the weakness of their argument. I mean, how confident can they be with the integrity if their position if they can't even bring them selves to answer questions.
Wow,this thread is still going. I see the atheists are still winning due to that lil' old thing called logic. I learnt a long time ago - and therefore I will share with you a point to consider... if religious people could reason, then there'd be no religion. It's as simple as that. Leave them to it...
That's the problem of human beings. They just can't accept that the universe has always been there...