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Atheism is the new religion

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Rez-G, Dec 28, 2006.

  1. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #521
    oh dear.... so you have no ability to read an understand words written in simple English? No ability at all?

    Reading the bible isn't going to provide clean water, vaccinations, increased food supply. So in other words you offer no hope what so ever and want to take credit for making a difference while doing NOTHING.

    two hands working achieves more than a thousand clasped in prayer.
     
    stOx, Jul 2, 2008 IP
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    #522
    So you think all these changes are possible by prayer alone (according to me?)?
    That's a ridiculous claim and clearly shows you have no idea AT ALL what the Bible teaches about how we should live. Let alone, what it is we are praying for! How completely ignorant you are! It defies logic!

    I am sick of your "in other words" claims. They are so false and far from what I am saying.
     
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  3. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #523
    So explain how the bible is going to provide clean drinking water, increased food supply for an increasing population and cures for diseases. I'm all ears.
     
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    #524
    The Bible can't provide these things. But, man applying the principles can make these things happen.

    Clean Drinking Water:
    Storage of rainwater would achieve this easy. Dams cost a lot of money..Probably 10% of the funds spent on wars would do it and also desalination plants. I just enjoyed a 10 nigh cruise on a ship that drew sea water and desalinated it perfectly for drinking and other purposes. Enough said.

    Increased Food Supply for an increasing population:
    Governments spend more of their budgets on farming instead of warfare. Enough said.

    Cures for Diseases
    Again, government budgets spend more on medicine instead of things of warfare. People abstain from sex outside of marriage (if they did this in the first place there would not be all of these STD's everywhere).

    The three things above are some of the things "man" can do "IF" he applies Bible principles. We both know man is not going to do these things in this system we live in because man is beyond the point of return (as a whole). Greed influences all of these matters. Greed breeds more greed. Remove greed from the equation and man will at least have a chance of thinking and acting more wisely.
     
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  5. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #525
    Ok, So what do we do? Move ethiopia nearer the sea? And wouldn't the desalination of sea water kind of be an scientific achievement? Tell me what part of the bible details the construction of a desalination plant.

    The bible says that? Agriculture, A scientific achievement.

    Medicine. A scientific achievement.

    Your lies seem to rely on the assumption that the bible forbids war, When actually it says no such thing.

    All you have done is demonstrate exactly how much humanity relies on science and how worthless your little book is.
     
    stOx, Jul 2, 2008 IP
  6. cientificoloco

    cientificoloco Well-Known Member

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    #526
    This is a good one. If science followed the bible we would know nothing about the biology of infectious diseases and how to treat them. A great deal about what we know about bacteria, viruses and parasites comes from concepts such as mutation, population genetics and evolution, the kind of science you and your friends want to see destroyed.
     
    cientificoloco, Jul 2, 2008 IP
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    #527
    Look at what humanity has achieved by not applying Bible principles. Take a look around man! The world's in a complete mess! Yes, science can be used to apply these things BUT man has to make the changes for it work, correct? You put your faith in science and man to achieve these things. Why is not happening as we speak?

    You are not making sense here, and you make the same claims as st0x. What makes you think I or my friends want science destroyed? That's a ridiculous statement!
     
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  8. cientificoloco

    cientificoloco Well-Known Member

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    #528
    I'm talking about evolutionary biology, specifically. It not only tell us where the present diversity came from. It also helps us understand how organisms work, and how to deal with infectious agents. Do you support evolutionary biology?
     
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    #529
    Evolutionary biology? No.
    Biology? Yes.

    There's a big difference between the two, you would have to agree.
     
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  10. cientificoloco

    cientificoloco Well-Known Member

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    #530
    Biology doesn't make sense without evolutionary concepts. Whether you like it or not.
     
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    #531
    Concepts. Correct. Or, theory. Theory is just theory. Not proof. Let's not jump to conclusions here.

    A concept is an idea or a thought for how something is has "possibly" derived. In no way does evolutionary theory prove that an origin of some living thing is from evolution itself. It is a guess at best.
     
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  12. cientificoloco

    cientificoloco Well-Known Member

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    #532
    A very good guess.
    Evolution is one of the most solid scientific theories, supported by endless data of different kinds. There are actually no alternative hypotheses. Under scrutiny by supporters and detractors, nobody has ever come up with a better way to explain nature, and the more we know the more solid it gets. It is better supported than many other theories that nobody doubts about. Gravity, quantum, electromagnetic theory, perhaps you should start questioning them too. Together with evolution, they too render your god unnecessary.
     
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    #533
    Of course it renders God unnecessary. If you believe in evolution of course. However, in order to believe in it you must have faith. True? This is no different to having faith or believing in God. Just because you don't visualise God the same way I do, does not mean he does not exist. I know he exists. How I prove that to people is a difficult and time consuming exercise. But, many people are allowing time to ponder all the things about God. I guess many people are allowing time to ponder things about evolution too. I have no problem with that. It all boils down to making a decision. I am not going to mock you or bring you down for your beliefs. I can only hope you do the same for me or anyone else that believes in God. Is that not a fair thing to request?
     
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  14. cientificoloco

    cientificoloco Well-Known Member

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    #534
    Sure. I don't quite agree in applying the word "faith" for accepting a scientific hypothesis the same as believing in god, but we can leave that alone. After all, if your faith is big enough you don't need the world to be this way or that way
     
    cientificoloco, Jul 3, 2008 IP
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    #535
    Fair enough :)
    If only all spiritual/evolutional conversations could end this way!

    Respect.

    Col :)
     
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  16. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #536
    Man doesn't need the bible to apply principles which make scientific achievements more available. However we do need science if the technology is to be available in the first place.

    Seriously, if you think doing the right think is only possible with the help of a primitive book you need to have a long hard think about the kind of person that makes you.

    How is it fair? One person believes in a solid scientific theory that explains a fact and the other believes an invisible man done it. it's laughable to suggest that both sides deserve equal respect.
     
    stOx, Jul 3, 2008 IP
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    #537
    Let's turn this coin over shall we? We have more crime, death, pestilence than ever before. It's been spiraling in a downward fashion for centuries. That book you refer to has been around for centuries..it has been ignored then, and it will be ignored now...why? Because man can be pigheaded and foolish and sooooooooooooooooo many do not learn from their mistakes. Many have applied the Bible principles and their lives have changed for the better dramatically. I know the kind of person I am and am very happy that I give credence to the one who knows ALL the answers to all mankind's problems...yeah, yeah, yeah...I know what you will say...it doesn't matter...these posts are not for you st0x...they are for those who read these things and they will plainly see I am not the provocative one in this conversation.

    You have a gaping hole in your theory...you can not provide the proof that man, giraffe or any other evolved from an amoeba. Instead, you provide a lot of theory..theory is very far from fact.
     
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  18. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #538
    You have just made all of that up. Disease has been on a steady decline thanks ENTIRELY to science. In this video Steve Pinker uses statistics and data, You know, Real things, To show that violence, infant mortality, Murder and warfare have decreased and we are currently living in the most peaceful time in the history of the human race. Life expectancy increases by a rate of one year per ten years, thanks to medicine and children are inoculated against many common diseases which would have killed them 200 years ago. Plagues are practically nonexistent thanks to sanitation and if you do happen to catch a disease it can be cured or at least treated, All thanks to science. You are simply living in a bubble where reality isn't a factor, you feel comfortable making up all sorts of falsehoods to support your preconceived beliefs. So much for "thou shalt not lie", A part of the bible you conveniently forget about when it suites you.

    let's consider the validity of this for a second. Not many people would disagree that America has one of the largest christian populations on the planet with 80% of Americans identifying themselves as "christian". America also has a homicide rate of 5.5 per 100'000, While Norway, A secular country, has a homicide rate of 1 per 100,000. Christian values in action. America also has the highest incarceration rate in the world with 750 per 100,000 being in prison, That is 7 times higher than the European average. Christian values in action. Gun crime in America also leads the graphs and one child every 3 hours dies from a gun shot.

    And guess what group has the lowest per capita representation in prison? that's right, Atheists. and who has the lowest divorce rates? that's right, Atheists. Christian values in action.

    You talk as if theory and fact are different rungs on the ladder of certainty. a theory can never become a fact because that simply isn't what it is. Theory's explain facts. the facts are that we share genes for synthesising proteins with other creatures, We share IRV DNA with other apes, We find transitional fossils, We have a fused chromosome that is identical to two chimpanzee chromosomes, Fruit flies have been observed speciating in a lab when separated and given different environments, An experiment that supported entirely the prediction made by natural selection. And what is it that explains these FACTS? The theory of evolution.

    Think of it in terms of gravitational theory. We know that gravity exists, it's a fact that gravity exists, Just like its a fact that evolution occurs, But we have the gravitational theory to explain the fact of gravity. Just because gravitational theory is a "theory" doesn't mean that it's possible that gravity doesn't exist.

    You continuous make the same fallacious error even after the countless times i have walked you through it. A theory is an explanation of a fact, it is not speculation and it is not a rung on the ladder of certainty.

    If you feel compelled to stunt your own intellectual development, That's fine. But when you try to tell me i'm wrong i will drag you across the coals, I will source my claims and i will demonstrate to everyone exactly how deceitful and intellectually dishonest you are.
     
    stOx, Jul 3, 2008 IP
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    #539
    What has America got to do with this? You are basing these things on the USA? The Christians are not true Christians. True Christians do not murder. Period. So, the statistics you are quoting about Christians is not valid. You can't apply a label to people just because they "say" they are a Christian. For example, most people would like to believe they are a "good" person. But what is a "good" person? What governs the definition of a "good" person? Get the point? The Bible governs a "true Christian" and I can tell you most that say they are, ain't! (James 2:26)

    Maybe, but who is doing the explaining and from what angle? Any biase involved? Any influence involved?

    There's some more slander...yeehah! Keep dragging mate! You keep believing in them coals...source as much as you like...you know evidence produced in court has been thrown out just as much as it has been considered..what does that say about evidence produced? So many court trials fall down to hearsay. Once hearsay is prevalent, it can be discarded for those dealing with it.
     
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  20. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #540
    The american crime statistics were to show that the bible is far from a sound method of improvement. the statistics were to show how a nation which consists vastly of Christians fairs much worse in many areas than secular countries where there bible plays no part in morality forming. It was to show that not only is being a christian not required but it may even be detrimental.

    People can get on perfectly well without your little book thanks.

    One area where america, a largely christian country, Fairs much worse than secular countries is in education. But that's hardly surprising now, is it.

    Why would there be bias? Scientists didn't want evolution to be true, they looked at the evidence and concluded it to be true.

    On your side however the bias is abhorrently widespread. We have people who are entirely ignorant about the science yet who feel comfortable refuting it. and let's not pretend your alleged disbelief is a result of anything other than your religious indoctrination.

    If your disbelief was based in science you would refute cell theory, germ theory, gravitational theory, the theory of relativity, tide theory, knot theory and colour theory on the same grounds. yet you don't, You only try to refute the theory that is contradictory to a primitive bronze age desert myth. this is very strong evidence that your problem with evolutionary theory has nothing at all to do with the science behind it and all to do with it being hugely contradictory to your "magic man used super jesus mud" hypothesis.

    Perhaps we could throw some of the evidence produced by creationists out too, Oh that's right, You haven't got any.
     
    stOx, Jul 4, 2008 IP