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ASP.NET 2.0 will DESTROY PHP

Discussion in 'C#' started by tonyrocks, Apr 12, 2006.

  1. ServerUnion

    ServerUnion Peon

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    #41
    Very well put. I feel most of us are forgetting that larger infrastructures are not that worried about cost of the system, but how it integrates with the current network.

    At the larger levels most prefer to spend more knowing that the support ,integration and scalability are going to be there. You will never hear a large company talk about what platform to use, they will use what they have and most will have a windows shop. They aren't going the throw up a NIX server because they can save a few dollars.
    SEMrush
     
    ServerUnion, May 10, 2006 IP
    SEMrush
  2. EWD

    EWD Well-Known Member

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    #42
    PHP is solid, free, bug-free, cheap hosting, has additional features than .NET shit, simple to learn, most widely used programming for websites, and the biggest one..... doesnt come with the word MS(Most Sucky) attached to it.. ( ha ha.. I love that one)
     
    EWD, May 10, 2006 IP
  3. ServerUnion

    ServerUnion Peon

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    #43
    Try to think like you have more than a $10/month budget. For your PR0 jokesite, PHP would be the quickest fit. If it was a practice management system for a company with $200 million in revenue, php and mySQL might not cut it the same.

    Please give some reference to your MS word comment. We have datacenters filled with win servers and I have never heard of that.
     
    ServerUnion, May 10, 2006 IP
  4. benjymouse

    benjymouse Peon

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    #44
    Backward breaking compatibility, even in point releases.

    No namespaces.

    unorthodox object management (pass-by-alias?).

    maverick developers polluting the global namespace (Date class anyone?).

    hacks inviting security problems (register_globals, parameterized includes), many developers *still* concatenating SQL queries.

    fragtmented community, tons and tons of incompatible, competing, overlapping frameworks for templating, MVC, database access.

    Largely amateurish community. Most PHP developers started with HTML and are self-taught PHP'ers. And don't know anything else. To see comments claiming that PHPs string functions are more advanced that .NET is, well, laughable.

    Dependency on extensions for serious work like xml parsing, transformations.

    Poor security record. Security disasters like PhpBB reflects badly on PHP itself. After all PHP invited that kind of coding in the first place.

    No consistent solution for added services. The PHP community are only now beginning to realize the need for a common framework. However the Zend Framework only solves the most basic of problems. Meanwhile competing techs like asp.net, java and RoR has moved on beyond this.

    General lack of consistency. Funny how the string function are lauded. I've never before in a public language/framework seen a worse mess.

    It seems that PHP has accumulated so much deadweight that it's becoming increasingly difficult to convince developers and site owners to upgrade. PHP5 has had a really slow uptake.

    In fact, the latest months (http://www.php.net/usage.php) has seen a worrying development for PHP sites. In fact, the number of IP addys using PHP topped somewhere back in mid-2004!
     
    benjymouse, May 13, 2006 IP
  5. MrWize

    MrWize Peon

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    #45
    I think this was the last nail into the coffin, in this discussion :D

    cya,
    /PatrikB
     
    MrWize, May 13, 2006 IP
  6. falcondriver

    falcondriver Well-Known Member

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    #46
    well BETA was a better than format than VHS, but the only beta-videorecorder i have ever seen in my life was in the fremantle marine museum :)
     
    falcondriver, May 14, 2006 IP
  7. articlebazar

    articlebazar Peon

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    #47
    I love asp.net, but haven't touched asp.net 2.0 yet, I think it a needless upgrade for me since I see asp.net 1.1 pretty good already. I have heard of Atlas, but don't want to take time to learn it. I just wanna learn more SEO stuff and gain more Internet Marketing knowledge. Anybody here kind enough to be my teacher???
     
    articlebazar, May 24, 2006 IP
  8. tonyrocks

    tonyrocks Active Member

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    #48
    benjy mouse is my hero! :)
     
    tonyrocks, May 24, 2006 IP
  9. benjymouse

    benjymouse Peon

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    #49
    In that case, you are in for a treat. ASP.NET 2.0 is a pretty significant update of an already impressive framework.
     
    benjymouse, May 24, 2006 IP
  10. articlebazar

    articlebazar Peon

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    #50
    Thanks, then I would definitely take the time to invest in myself. :p
     
    articlebazar, May 24, 2006 IP
  11. Lisper

    Lisper Guest

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    #51
    About any web development framework is better than PHP, I am working on a project (a simple CMS) today that has to be made in PHP. I hate the experience so much I will make sure it will be my last encounter with PHP.

    For the folks who like .Net: one can run it on unix servers too with mono. I run several sites on Apache and mod_mono.

    Ofcourse personally I am switching my web development to Lisp. ;)
     
    Lisper, May 24, 2006 IP
  12. MrSupplier

    MrSupplier Peon

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    #52
    How do you running your lisp web stuff? fastcgi?
     
    MrSupplier, May 25, 2006 IP
  13. Lisper

    Lisper Guest

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    #53
    I am not running anything in production yet as i am still learning :eek: but there is a apache module for lisp. One of the frameworks you can then use to build the webapplication is uncommon web. It looks like a lot of fun, can't wait to play more with it. I just don't have the time right now :(
     
    Lisper, May 26, 2006 IP
  14. Mystique

    Mystique Well-Known Member

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    #54
    I love ASP but not ASP.net, more powerful indeed but with too limited scripts available, and also limited when the hosting provider do not allow you to run your own dll's and components, not to mention the yellow application error message that usually comes after you maike a mistake :/
     
    Mystique, May 26, 2006 IP
  15. SEO Jeff

    SEO Jeff Active Member

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    #55
    You can run your own custom developed DLL files. They would need to be put into the Global Assembly Cache or in just the web applications Bin folder. The DLL could be a custom class library, web control, etc. Scripts may be limited in ASP.NET but if you are a true developer one that understands fully ASP.NET making a replicate of say a directory script would be very easy to do. I know I have done a few directory scripts in ASP.NET 2.0.
     
    SEO Jeff, May 26, 2006 IP
  16. Allan

    Allan Peon

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    #56
    It all depends on the development environment available. I used to code php only with text editor and adding 'echo' for debugging. Recenlty I tried Zend Studio, with integrated debugger and variable display, what a difference in my productivity.
     
    Allan, Jun 23, 2006 IP
  17. infonote

    infonote Well-Known Member

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    #57
    Besides ASP.NET 2.0 there is also JSF which is a contender
     
    infonote, Jun 24, 2006 IP
  18. benjymouse

    benjymouse Peon

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    #58
    JSF is definately a contender. It builds upon the same basic idea (the interpreter design pattern) as ASP.NET. If even tries to generalize the rendering beyond what is possible with asp.net, i.e. rendering for a telnet client.

    My worry is that it's too little, too late.

    Too little b/c it merely plays catchup with ASP.NET 1.1. JSF is nowhere near the functionality of ASP.NET 2.0.

    Too late b/c the Java community have largely moved beyond basic JSP, leaving the community with at many decent (but fragmented) overlapping alternatives. JSF has still to make the breakthrough.
     
    benjymouse, Jun 28, 2006 IP
  19. ccoonen

    ccoonen Well-Known Member

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    #59
    The IDE is what makes ASP.NET 2.0 so hawt!
     
    ccoonen, Jun 29, 2006 IP
  20. benjymouse

    benjymouse Peon

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    #60
    While hawt is a subjective term, you are still kidding yourself if you believe that. It is a myth. Get over it.

    ASP.NET is primarily a framework which sports high level abstractions over common problems in web applications: Sticky forms, MasterPages, reusable controls, validation, membership, site structure and much, much more.

    VS2005 (the IDE) makes precious little code for you. To have a sticky form with validation (e.g. with a text field which must contain a correctly formatted email address), you do this:

        <form id="form1" runat="server">
            Please enter your email address:
            <asp:TextBox ID="txtEmail" runat="server" />
            <asp:RegularExpressionValidator ID="valEmail" runat="server" ControlToValidate="txtEmail"
                Display="Dynamic" ErrorMessage="Please enter a correct email address" ValidationExpression="\w+([-+.']\w+)*@\w+([-.]\w+)*\.\w+([-.]\w+)*" />
            <br />
            <asp:Button ID="cmdSubmit" runat="server" Text="Submit" />
        </form>
    Code (markup):
    This is a form which will ask for an email adress. It will automatically generate javascript (at runtime) to validate client-side. It will also validate server-side, just in case javascript was switched off. It will also be "sticky", i.e. the entered values are redisplayed in the fields (well the field in this case).

    This power does certainly *not* come from the IDE. It comes from the framework, server side controls, validation controls, viewstate etc.
     
    benjymouse, Jun 29, 2006 IP