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Hey Red01, I'm RedOxide, meet my brother RedOnion...
"efforts' is not an entry at dictionary.com - but then neither is "poop" and we know that use that word daily.

 

http:// dictionary. cambridge. org/define.asp?key=24892&dict=CALD

They use it if you read through the full definition? I dont understand, please clarify if nobody here has heard the word "efforts" before?

 

This poor man has had his writing pulled apart. I feel as if he is entitled to some kind of apology? Open to suggestions.

 

Well, his post is getting way more 'views' then it ever would have.
And I have already paid him for three articles through this thread.

 

Ok Redoxide I did read back and notice you defended him. Maybe those who took an alternative stance would be brave enough to admit they were wrong? Who knows....

So can I clarify if anyone thinks "efforts" is not a word? If not we can assume that the "star copywriter" at DG does not only have a reputation to save, but an apology to make.

 

No one has to apologize. Jason IS one of the best in the business, and a writer should be able to take constructive criticism on his/her work. Even professionals are constantly learning new things to improve their craft. As a writer myself, I welcome feedback from respected colleagues. I may not always agree with what they have to say, but I always make an effort to appreciate their opinion in regards to my work.

Jason didn't say what he said to be mean -- he's blunt about it, but that's fine. Sugarcoating your words doesn't help anyone learn a damn thing.

 

'Efforts' is definitely a word. Surely everyone knows that? It's not just something that we use colloquially - it is actually an acceptable, formally appropriate word. [Please nobody respond by taking issue with this point to avoid the main crux of my argument ]

'Jason' has been overly critical of someone's work that simply didn't deserve it. What kind of a professional makes critical judgments based on his own ignorance? If I was to choose a copywriter, I would choose someone with integrity, and someone who had the maturity to avoid cliques and tackle real problems, rather than those he has decided to fabricate in order to impress a few college drop-outs that decided to 'make their name' in the copywriting business. Most bullies give up by the time they reach 14...

When the content bubble bursts, I wonder how 'Jason' will get on without his virtual buddies to protect him...

 

You obviously have a thing or two to learn AllyWalker.

 

lol Jason certainly doesn't need our help. He's respected for what he does. I'm also not sure who you're referring to as "college drop-outs." There are quite a few professionals with not only degrees, but years of experience here.

Yes, "efforts" is a word. However, it's not a word as it was used (and I have no problem saying Jason was wrong on that point - we duke things out as much as we agree.). An appropriate use would be something like "Our organization's various fundraising efforts wouldn't have been possible without the help of our volunteers."

There's nothing overly critical in pointing out an error in someone's sales copy posted to a "copywriting" forum. If the OP didn't want critique, they should have posted it in a sales area where it belonged in the first place. I'm sure after all this, they'll consider that next time. As Denise said, you have to be able to accept constructive criticism if you ever want to amount to anything as a writer. Jason gives good advice, and for free when he doesnt' have to. Any smart writer would listen and learn, whether they ultimately agree or not. And that's not coming from a "buddy" or member of a "clique." It's coming from someone who has received a good bit of criticism from him; some that I've taken to heart and some that I've flat-out ignored as my own judgement call. It's a part of being a writer.

Immaturity is when people can't take it and improve because of it. I don't think the OP did that at all, although others in the thread have. Hopefully the OP did learn something, and they'll simply be more careful with sales posts, and they'll bring in more, higher-paying clients because of it.

 

Glad to see everyone accepts Jason was wrong. I am also glad jhmattern has heard of the word efforts, so she, along with bestcopywriter, will be able to keep everyone up-to-date with future errors on this forum. I had a look at the website for which the anchor text reads "Six Figure Challenge" and I have a question. Is it 100K per writer or between everyone? Is that revenue or profit?

Maybe Jason will shy away from this forum after his awful mistake, but I dont think he should. It would be best if he stayed here, and learned something.

 

It's 100K per writer. Jason doesn't need to shy away from any forum or anyone -- as Jenn said, it wasn't a word the way the OP used it but yes, it IS a word.

 

You would think, as a "professional copywriter", jason aka marketingjunction would have something to say. Maybe he is having an off-week, or maybe his skills were never there in the first place.

I welcome his response...

Good point about cliques having formed in the copywriting section of this forum. That is blatantly obvious.

 

Jason's human too. He makes mistakes like any of us, and he's definitely one to heed his own advice and learn. More than likely he unsubscribed from the thread a while ago. I believe he already said he wouldn't be checking back, but I could be wrong.

And yes, it's 100k for each of us. I believe all of us have our specific plans on the blog, and I know at least I'm posting monthly plans (will be updating totals probably monthly there) if you have any interests in the "how". It's based on revenue. For most of us, the majority of that is profit (writing isn't a high overhead type of work - costs me less in expenses than just gas to get to a nonprofit job I used to have).

I'm also not sure where you're getting this "clique" concept. Several of the professional writers (ones with significant background or experience, who market themselves effectively, don't settle for low wages - since everyone likes to argue what that word means) on DP network privately, and we often participate in the same threads here. We back points up if we agree, and if we don't agree we say so. We certainly don't always agree. We just tend to save our nastiest battles for our writing forum, and spare everyone else here.

 

I know Jason makes loads of mistakes. That is obvious.

Once you learn about accounting, you will learn wages are an expense, and as such are the largest expense for most service providers.

I used to read this forum for a while, and have learned a lot from it when I cut through the pointless posts and posts about wages, which seem to be the "cliques" favourite topic.

Think of how nice you lot have been to 4 relatively new people who have introduced themselves in this thread, then consider how the people could have this perception. Can it really be good for the DP community as a whole? I also note you do not ask for a definition of who are members of the 'clique'. That goes without saying.

You said "More than likely he unsubscribed from the thread a while ago. I believe he already said he wouldn't be checking back, but I could be wrong."

This is an indication to me that bitching occurs. I could also be wrong, but it certainly supplements my point.

 

I don't ask, because anyone who disagrees throws that out there. It's not new. And actually, we've helped quite a few people both publicly and privately (why a lot of DP writers join us elsewhere between private networking groups and my forum). There are two groups of writers here generally: The ones earning a good living from their work, and the ones who want to (hobby writers aside, since I don't see many people here claiming to be that). Those of us who are making a good living go well out of our way to help the ones who want to improve their earnings by improving their writing or marketing skills. If you don't like it, tough luck. I'm happy to piss off a hundred people if it means I get to help out one.

What's an indication that bitching occurs? I simply stated a fact. Jason doesn't spend a lot of time on back and forths. I'm pretty sure he said as much already in this thread. So asking where he is for a response is just stupid. If someone wants a response, ask him directly, and he'd likely come back to respond.

 

You don't seem to have a point, Red01. Your "points" are based largely on assumptions, which I'm afraid are wrong. Jenn already hit on the basics, so I don't have much more to say on that matter.

There are a lot of members on this forum you could consider belong to what you say are "cliques."

 

"You don't seem to have a point, Red01". I do not seem to have a point? Let me clarify my points, which have become somewhat diluted by the ignorance and stupidity of the "copywriting clique".

1. "efforts" is a word. Not an assumption, fact.

2. A clique has formed amongst self professed "professional writers", who have yet to earn 100K a year. Where earn = turnover. Which means any marketing expenses and wages are not material to their calculation. Not an assumption, fact.

3. Bitching goes on. My one and only Assumption.

 

1. No one has argued with you about that.

2. We aren't a "clique." We are simply like-minded colleagues who came together to help writers earn more from their work.

3. You said yourself that it was an assumption.

I'm going to take Jason's route and leave this thread now. It's definitely descended into crazy territory.

 

So I see you avoided point 2. You are basically embarking on a venture that is neither profitable nor purposeful. Turnover is merely vanity. FACT.

I could go and spend 100K on PPC for one of my websites and not attain the same ROI as if I spent 62K. Yes It would improve turnover, but not my profitability, if I do not attain a ROI on my later 38K media spend. So as much as you may feel an aggregated turnover of 500K is wonderful, it is not profitable and nor does it illustrate anything, or encourage people to build a web-based business that is a going concern. A professional writer would be salaried at a rate over 80K, so you will never be able to outsource your work as your business expands.

Glad to see you are leaving this thread. 2 "professionals" down. 1 to go.

 

Hi Bestwriter,

I hope you are very successful with your writing. With a mature and professional attitude like this one, I'm sure you will be. Kudos!

Rebecca