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Arguments against gun control

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by lightless, Jan 26, 2009.

  1. #1
    Came across this a few days ago. Interesting.

     
    lightless, Jan 26, 2009 IP
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  2. amanamission

    amanamission Well-Known Member

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    #2
    I haven't seen such a set of logical fallacies, half-truths, and outright distortions since...well, the posts supporting the invasion of Gaza.

    These are the words of a dangerous lunatic.

    A gun is an instrument, which, when properly used, causes injury and death. No other such product is legal.
    A gun is not a defensive weapon. It is an offensive weapon which may be employed in defense.

    Most of these arguments about guns=freedom seem to presume that the Government is held at bay out fear of armed revolution. This is absurd. The Government responds to armed revolt with ATF and FBI sieges.
    I assure you that none of our freedoms are enforced by the idea of rednecks with guns under their bed.

    I do not fear gun control, I fear maniacs with guns. I am afraid of people who demand to be armed.
    The word for people who advance their interests by threatening violence is "terrorist".

    "If I hear one more time about some fool's right
    To his tools of rage
    I'm takin' all my friends and we're gonna move to Canada
    And I'm gonna die of old age."

    -Ani Difranco
     
    amanamission, Jan 26, 2009 IP
  3. bfebrian

    bfebrian Peon

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    #3
    see this video?

    now what happen if they allowed to carry guns?

    or maybe they need more one of this?

     
    bfebrian, Jan 26, 2009 IP
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  4. robjones

    robjones Notable Member

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    #4
    Apparently brian failed to notice those shootings all happened in places where guns are typically not allowed or are in fact prohibited. He might also note that at Columbine (just as at the recent mass shooting in NY) calling 911 resulted in the police arriving late and standing outside for a long time while the mayhem continued. [Not a very effective form of defense, so pardon me if I prefer NOT to be slaughtered like a lamb just because others are deathly afraid of a simple self-defense tool.]

    The first such shooting to gain notoriety was the one at the University of Texas back before the guns were less in evidence on the streets here. The guy in the tower was pinned down by guys with deer rifles grabbed outta the backs of pickups and ultimately taken out by a team that included an armed civilian. "Gun free zones" and "gun free streets" are fantasies of lawmakers, not realities. All they do is provide a safer workplace for those bent on shooting someone.

    I notice he also didnt mention the one that occurred at a law school where a few guys that happened to think their constitutional rights trumped university policy kept the body count lower by going after the gunman and ending the battle. Funny how that works. Gun free zones apparently arent near as fun when someone on the victim side fails to play along.

    There's a reason mass-shootings always seem to happen in places like schools instead of gun ranges. Still... we have legislators that think prohibiting guns will stop gun crime. As former Asst Dir Coulson of the FBI noted... the gun genie is already outta the bottle. Adding to that... as Thomas Jefferson noted...

    I don't especially care if people like Anamission agree with my constitutionally guaranteed rights. If they don't want to exercise them, that's their privilege. If they want to call me "a terrorist", "a fool", or "dangerous lunatic" for insisting the US Consitution is enforceable, that's their problem. [They can argue with Jefferson, but they can't win.]:)

    To avoid repetition, full text of that thought here: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=11113166&postcount=20
     
    robjones, Apr 8, 2009 IP
  5. Firegirl

    Firegirl Peon

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    #5
    Sums up my thoughts on gun control right there. How the Second Amendment stands now gives me the CHOICE on whether I want to own a gun or not. Let's not take away the choice for everyone because of a few crazies. I don't think I would have a gun in the house at all if I had very small children, but that doesn't mean I should take that right away from everyone else.

    And I was thinking yesterday, how come we never heard of children shoothing others, or themselves, until recent history? Combing through news all the way back to the 30s and 40s, never really saw any stories about the accidents and murders we see today. Kinda makes you wonder what changed....
     
    Firegirl, Apr 8, 2009 IP
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  6. hostlonestar

    hostlonestar Peon

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    #6
    Firegirl, the social programs are what has caused the change. The babying and believing in rehabilitation over punishment has caused the change. States outlawing spanking your kids in the privacy of your own home is what has changed.

    I completely agree. I love having the ability to defend and protect my family, friends, loved ones, and myself, as well as random 3rd partys. I'm not going to say you have to have a gun. It is your right to choose to. If you choose not to, that is your own problem.

    I was introduced to a gun at the age of 5, shot it for the first time at 7, and had my own when I was 13. Guess what? I never played with a gun when I wasn't supposed to. When you make something taboo it will cause them to want to play with it, if youshow them it really isn't as cool as they think it is, they will stay away from it (at elast thats how we do it in Texas). My daughter is 3, 2 more years and she gets to touch daddy's guns, my son is 7 months, so he's got a ways to go. Until then, all they know is that there are these really large metal cabinets that they can't get into.

    I keep one gun hanging up next to the front door (we still have cattle rustlers in TX) to protect my horses, my other buildings, and my cattle. I have a pistol (I always carry when I'm outside the house) that is locked in a safe next to the front door when I'm home, except at night where it is on the table next to me, loaded (no round in the chamber, just a magazine) and on safe. I also keep all my other guns locked in a large gun safe. Inside the ammo is locked in a smaller safe, and the handguns are locked in another smaller safe. This serves two purposes, when I'm gone someone will only be able to steal one gun with one magazine, and my kids can't get to any of them. the one hanging up is also a tradition in texas on ranches, and is too high for the kids to reach and they are not ever in that room by themselves.

    Remember, those that are for gun control, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. I saw this all too many times when I arrived to an already committed crime while I was in law enforcement.

    Not only that, the US Supreme court has already ruled that the 2nd amendmant, which states A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed, applies to an individual and not a national guard or organized militia. It is also my personal interperatation (as well as many other people who have studyed the constiution extensively)(I have since I was 14), that it also refers to the population having access to the same types of weapons the military has.

    It was put in place to defend the people from the government, indians, and wild animals, as well as other americans. It is through the right of the people to keep and bear arms that this country was founded. The declaration of independance specifically states it is the right of the people, when they get tired of their government, to overthrow the govenrment and establish a new one.

    The 2nd Amendmant is what makes all the others possible.

    And the statistic that you don't hear about is how many people prevent a crime from occuring, prevent themselves from being a victim? Not very many because normally the police are not called.
     
    hostlonestar, Apr 8, 2009 IP
  7. LinkSales

    LinkSales Active Member

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    #7
    13. 64,999,987 firearms owners...

    Out of any group of 65 Million people there are going to be PLENTY of bad apples. But seriously, 65 Million people didn't pull a gun on someone yesterday while very few, mostly in defense, probably did.

    Statistics people. 1 bad apple is nothing compared to the rights of the many.

    Further, I think robjones makes an excellent point with the location of most shootings. Most shootings occur in gun-free zones. If you were to go on a killing spree, would you start at the gunshow or at a school? At a gunshow there's probably 100 people with concealed carry permits and at a school there's the same number, all armed with #2 pencils. Where would you begin?
     
    LinkSales, Apr 8, 2009 IP
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  8. hostlonestar

    hostlonestar Peon

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    #8
    I like Texas law, you don't even have to have a permit so long as you keep the gun in your car and you are only traveling to one destination.
     
    hostlonestar, Apr 8, 2009 IP
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  9. hostlonestar

    hostlonestar Peon

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    #9
    Where have all the constitution abolitionists (liberals) gone?
     
    hostlonestar, Apr 9, 2009 IP
  10. ncz_nate

    ncz_nate Peon

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    #10
    Then pack your bags and get the hell out of this country, if you don't like what it was founded on.

    They scatter as soon someone brings up common sense.
     
    ncz_nate, Apr 9, 2009 IP
  11. LogicFlux

    LogicFlux Peon

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    #11
    Ditto.

    Have you ever lived in the country? You know we don't all live in big cities where cops are 5 minutes away. If you live in a small town with no police force to speak of or in the country, your life may depend on your ability to defend yourself, even by using deadly force if necessary.

    Plus I really like the idea of an armed citizenry. Sure, if it came down to it, the government has tanks, missiles, f22s and whatnot but an armed society is much less of a pushover.
     
    LogicFlux, Apr 9, 2009 IP
  12. ncz_nate

    ncz_nate Peon

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    #12
    I blame most gun violence on society's disrespect for guns and weaponry. Let me explain..

    A couple friends of mine came over to hang out a couple years ago. Ryan and Mike. Ryan has hunted his whole life and grew up with guns in the house, and thus has respect for them. He knows not to point them at people, knows not to keep them loaded, etc. Mike on the other hand, has no experience with guns, he grew up on the "rich, white boy" side of town. It was no surprise that when he came over and saw my pellet gun, he was aiming at us and acting like a clown. He loaded it up and aimed at my knee, I told him to knock it off or I'd hit him..

    Few seconds later he fired it an inch away and went through my blanket. This is one of the high-power ones too that can kill small game so any closer and I would have likely needed surgery. Ryan hit him for me.

    The point is, when you don't grow up around guns, you either have an irrational fear of them, or a disrespect for them. But since liberals base their ideology on running as far away from problems as possible, I don't expect the future generations to have any better understanding or respect for guns as our current.
     
    ncz_nate, Apr 9, 2009 IP
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  13. hostlonestar

    hostlonestar Peon

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    #13
    Exactly like I said, if you are raised around guns, you are less prone to want to mess with them, less prone to be unsafe.

    It seems the liberals are scared.
     
    hostlonestar, Apr 10, 2009 IP
  14. Firegirl

    Firegirl Peon

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    #14
    Also, what is the country to do if the zombie apocalypse happens and there are no guns? I'm personally holding on to a few guns and a nice collection of samurai swords for the occasion. I mean, who wouldn't want to pop the heads off a few zombies?
     
    Firegirl, Apr 10, 2009 IP