Are there ANY circumstances where its ok to purchase a email list? Any legit company?

Ok, I know spam is one of the worst things in the world to a lot of ppl, but the fact is 'unsolicited bulk email" is probably the absolute best technique for a great ROI. It dosent cost much, you can get your message out to tens of thousands of ppl without having to take months and months and months to get your site SEO'd.

I was selling an ebook and sent out about 2,000 emails to address I had harvested from related sites (I didnt know about all the Can-Spam laws at the time), and A few of my sales came from these contacts.

So, if you DO IT RIGHT, ie, Putting a REAL physical address at the bottem of the email, saying "this is a commercial solicitation" in the title, having your legimate reply to email, not having any misleading titles, not marketing penis enlargement or porn, and having a opt out link at the bottom of the email to GUARANTEE that person never ever receives an email about that product again.

How exactly is this so horrible? People talk about building your own opt in email list, which could take years to build one of any substantial size. How can someone build of list when they have no customers in the first place? Thats like saying "save up your pennies and one day you can buy a mansion." There has to be a better way.

I honestly dont see how me or anyone else could be sued for using a purchased opt in list that says all the opt in's are legal and meritted. If I make copies of the websites html code, record it on video if I have to, isnt that legally binding that they said I could email the people on their list? Does anyone know of ANY company out there that sales legitimit opt in lists?

I know a lot of ppl hate spam, and I can understand why. I keep receiving emails about watches, the same email over and over, with no opt out link. Thats what makes ppl hate spam.

As far as Im concered if a link to opt out is provided what is the big deal? Email marketing is honestly the easiest / fasted way to get stuff going fast. If you email 50,000 targeted potential customers, and only .1% come to your site and buy something, that's 50 sales! depending on what you're selling you can potentially make the money back you spend on the email marketing program or script (lets just say $300) and the email list ($150) in 1 or 2 days.

 

Of course it's ok from a business point of view. I've had clients use email in the past and even rented the lists for them. If you need a list just enter [list broker] in your favorite SE. They will usually give you the terms and conditions to help you keep it legal.

The thing is from a PR standpoint people don't like spammers... but they buy from them. A lot.

In the mean time I suggest you do build your own opt in list because these leads are more likely to be qualified over time.

 

Hmm, ok, your clients? What exactly is your job if i may ask?

List broker, ok, thanks. Do you personally know or have heard of any good companies to rent or buy lists from?

 

I do marketing. So direct mail and email are pretty common. I haven't had to rent a list in a while but infousa.com was pretty good last time I used them.

 

wow, minimum list cost $750 bucks?! no thanks! lol, thanks, but I dont have that type of budget.

Imma keep looking though, thanks for your help!

 

Email marketing when done properly using targeted lists can offer a fantastic ROI. You you pay $750 for a highly targeted list and with the right products you can make many times more than that back.

The key is getting a reliable list and having marketable products, i.e. not Viagra etc that people get spammed with all the time

 

Awesome. Would personally kjnow of any reliable companies?

 

I'm not in the office at the moment, we have a list of companies that we use in there but they tend to be UK targeted.

 

Alright

Anyone else with company suggestions?

 

In the professional marketing world, no... buying a list really is still spam. If the end reader didn't specifically agree to receive your message, you should leave them alone, and try to find a better way to appeal to that market to get them to sign up for your mailing list on their own. If they specifically want to hear from you, they're more likely to respond to you. Invest your time, not your money. I'm sure plenty of webmasters will disagree with me, but my opinion's from a general marketing perspective. I don't know a single legitimate marketing professional who would suggest buying lists as appropriate (and I'm not talking about "internet marketing gurus" here). Yes, email and direct mail are common... but you hurt your own integrity when you buy lists like you're talking about. The last thing you want to do is tick off your audience. If you can't build a list on your won, instead why not partner with another site and try to set up a joint mailing list where readers opt-in to both? It doesn't have to be from the same niche; just targeting the same demographics.

Jenn

 

No offense, but I find the enlarged font to be a huge contradiction.

In one instance you say dont mail any potential customers unless they specifically request you to, and in the next breath you say use opt in lists from partnering sites. In my eyes, there is no difference in using a partners list or buying a double opt in list, as in both cases the customer did not SPECIFICALLY request the information from you.

I understand a lot of ppl dislike spam, but to say one should build their own list simply dosent make sense to me. And for ppl who say "you are scaring off potential customers," how can you scare off what you do not have? Thats like saying "dont get that heart transplant because the doctors could make a mistake and kill you"... Well, if you DONT get the transplant, you're dead in the water anyways!

Im not saying their aren't other ways of marketing, but some quick points:

SEO - Getting your site in the top 10 or even 20 (the only places ppl look) is going to take a hell of a long time.

PPC - This is cutting in on your profits, and as a NEW start up company, you arent going to be able to afford to make high enough bids to get get 1,000 impressions a day if you're lucky, without killing your ROI.

I could go on. But my point is you cant kill what you do not have in the first place. I would maybe question doing email marketing on a site where advertisements is the revenue (but still might end up doing it), but if you're just selling a product or service and are a new start up with limited funds / resources, email marketing is a win win situation.

 

With what I suggested, they would still specifically have to approve mail from you. Larger companies do this all the time, and it involves simply having multiple opt-in boxes for the companies involved. With more than one company soliciting the responses, it simply cuts the work of each one in half as far as recruiting goes... nothing contradictory about that.

And yes, you can scare off potential customers by spamming them. If you anger them before they know anything about you, you're extremely unlikely to ever win them over later on. There are other, more reputable, ways of marketing yourself early on without spam... and there are reasons why so many areas have anti-spam laws... that in itself should tell you something and get you looking in another direction.

It doesn't take getting your site in the top 10 or so to make money. SEO has been one of my smallest focuses, but I have an extremely high conversion rate of turning visitors into customers, because I build trust and interest in other ways. Not only that, but I can't recall ever spending a dime to market any of my sites or my business (other than basic registrations and hosting), so nothing's ever cut into my profits. Being a PR professional I focus on those tactics, and it's worked amazingly for me. I know not all sites can do that... but I know for a fact that some can. There are legitimate tactics that, when used appropriately, will bring you higher quality traffic (the people who really want to buy or at least be there). Those are the kinds of visitors that spread the word about your site, and build the best quality of incoming traffic you're likely to receive. It doesn't have to be costly or take forever. The biggest mistake I think people often make is that they just assume it's all a numbers game, and they overlook quality traffic in the process.

Under no circumstances does anyone need spam to build a successful site or business.

Jenn

 

woahdolla, I think jhmattern was saying partner with someone, create an opt-in list with your partner, and specifically state who will be using this list to the user base. Your user base then knows that another site with the same niche may email you as well. This is way different then buying a list of people that never signed up for your services.

 

Exactly tekntoant. Thanks for making it clearer than I did.

Jenn

 

I understand this, but still, honestly dont see it as much different.

Many ppl say ppl agree to receive emails from bulk opt in list when they are presented with a dialog like "would you agree to receive future emails from all our partners", or something like that, not knowning they are legally putting themselves into a list available to anyone who wants to buy it.

I dont think many ppl actually read all the little check boxes when opting into partner sites, they either leave em checked just to rush or uncheck them all, thats just my belief because thats what I do.

Im not saying anyone NEEDS bulk email. Same way no one needs a car or a cell phone, but that dosent mean it cant be a GREAT help in getting your business off the ground.

I guess me and you just have a difference of opinion, and I can respect that. Me personally, as someone who has surfed the net everyday for 12 years, do not find it so life threatening to have to click "select all" and "empty" my yahoo folder everyday. Also, I would personally give ppl a chance to unsubscribe, so they would never receive anymore emails from me. Personally, if done this way, I dont see anything wrong with "spam"

But when you send someone a message that says "re: hello" with misleading titles, and no opt out link, and sending porn where kids can see it, I see that as a problem, and thats where all the Can-Spam laws come from. A few bad seeds has made it harder for legit mass marketers, but not impossible.

Telemarketing, Direct Mail, Flyers on your car etc etc... Unsolicited mass marketing is everywhere. Again, its not the worst thing in the world, their are other things like aids, cancer etc that I would put slightly higher on my list.

 

Oh, just one more question for the record.. Do you HONESTLY believe that if someone receives an unsilicited email from someone, one or 2 times, that they are going to say to themselves: "I will never use this company again! or visit there website! they sent me 2 spam emails!"

Do you really believe that? If someone is providing a great product / service or content I believe most recipients would be delighted... Theirs checks and balances and everything, and starting off with bulk email the good by FAR outweighs the bad, IF you do things right

 

Ummm yes, because I do it all the time. I'm a marketing professional. One of the first things they teach you is to know your market and give them what they want or need. No one wants or needs spam. You need to understand... just because you think your own product or service is great doesn't mean the rest of the world will agree. Even creators of products that have never made them a cent think they've created the greatest thing since sliced bread.

And since spam is illegal, how can you say the good outweighs the bad? There's a reason why so many email marketing services ban you from using purchased lists... it's spam plain and simple, and they get in trouble for it; not just you.

And the point is that you shouldn't be using a line saying they're subjecting themselves to receive email from partners. Each checkbox should specifically mention the company involved; one for each partner in the campaign, and they should be unchecked to start with; not checked. "Tricking" people into clicking b/c you know they won't read it doesn't make it a better practice. You should only want highly targeted people on your email list. Let them choose you instead of feeling like they've been taken advantage of later on by tricky wording or formatting.

You're right about unsolicited mail being everywhere. But it's still spam, still illegal in many places in many circumstances, and still ethically wrong. If you were a professional marketer with the American Marketing Association (and yes, I know most people here aren't actually professionals in the field so they don't join these organizations), you'd even essentially be violating their code of ethics (http://www.marketingpower.com/content435.php) which are considered an industry standard. When the AMA and the FTC are telling you there's something unethical about spam, I don't see how you can really disagree. There's a reason these kinds of laws and policies are in place. I just don't agree with encouraging people who aren't necessarily as in tune with the marketing field to use these kinds of methods. That's all.

Jenn

 

Jenn, just because you don't do it doesn't mean it isn't legitimate. Many fortune 500 companies rent email lists.

On this issue, I respectfully disagree. It's like saying direct mail is illigitimate which is nonsense. The only difference is the medium, the tactic and process remain the same.

And while I'm not a member of the AMA, the DMA has it's own set of standerds in which email is ok provided you use a legitimate list and have the normal disclaimers. And it's perfectly legal.

 

Plenty of our clients buy in lists from similar business and its completely legitmate and 'opt-in' A recent example is a clothing company start-up. The company is buying lists from all the major clothing catalogue companies. These guys frequently sell lists. You notice most sign-up forms have a couple of boxes to check where customers can agree to receive emails from the company itslef and also 'partners'

It's a completely legitimate and common way of allowing companies to sell thier lists to 'selected' clients. They're obviously fairly careful who it goes to as they don't want people to unsubscribe so they ensure it's targeted. For this reason it delivers excellent ROI.

 

It's not a matter of whether I do it or not. It's a matter of the top marketing organization basically saying those kinds of practices are unethical by the basic standards they set forth, and I believe wholeheartedly in running a business as ethically as possible.

I know we disagree, and I can respect that too. I don't expect to sway you. I'm not saying direct mail is illegitimate. I'm just saying companies need to treat customers with more respect and build their own lists from people who actually want to hear from them. Sure, it's more work. Doing things right usually does involve more work. I didn't say it would be easy.

I was just reading through the DMA's ethical guidelines. While of course they're a reputable organization (and I didn't ready everything), I focused on the section regarding list sale / rental. I didn't even see it mentioned once about lists being opt-in. On top of that, they emphasize that the list broker should be checking to see what promotions the list will be used for, and to essentially refuse the sale or rental if they don't feel it's appropriate for the listed individuals. Unfortunately, that really doesn't happen nearly as often as it should.

It's legal if you follow every stringent rule, yes. But most don't. While there may be a few really reputable list brokers, many aren't, and those are the ones that are going to sell to anyone and everyone willing to fork over the money. And unfortunately, consumers don't care where you got their information, as long as they know it wasn't from them. That's the AMA issue: marketers are supposed to be working to increase and maintain consumer confidence in the marketing industry, and using rented lists does the exact opposite. Besides, even if you have a list from a reputable company, you'll never get the response rates you would if you had compiled a completely custom list of customers opting in specifically for your messages. In the end, the time investment is always going to give you a better ROI than the money you'd spend to rent a list for one mailing, or buy a list for a few (especially because they get outdated, and people who didn't specifically want your messages aren't likely to update their info with you).

So like I said, I know we're going to continue to disagree and that's perfectly fine. There are two completely different perspectives laid out here, and that's a good thing imo, b/c others browsing through can evaluate the issue from both sides and make their own decisions.

Jenn