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Are Indian Programmers Good for hiring?

Discussion in 'Programming' started by romioaa, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. NetStar

    NetStar Notable Member

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    #21
    Just because someone is from (or currently residing in) India doesn't mean their rates will be less than the next person. In fact, if they are GOOD they KNOW what the competitive rates are. If you pay cheap you will get cheap.
    SEMrush
     
    NetStar, Nov 24, 2012 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Rukbat

    Rukbat Well-Known Member

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    #22
    Since development needs a dominant left brain, and design needs a dominant right brain, finding someone who's really good at both is almost impossible. Someone with neither hemisphere dominant will be able to design and develop, but won't be a superstar at either one. If you want a great looking site that works great, as you say, you have to hire two people. (One can be a current employee - many companies have people working for them who are quite artistic, and that's what design is.)
     
    Rukbat, Nov 24, 2012 IP
    ryan_uk likes this.
  3. goodfela

    goodfela Active Member

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    #23
    you are right but some of them are very lazy and dont finish the jobs. do the payment when job is done. take care!!
     
    goodfela, Nov 24, 2012 IP
  4. Anastasiya1989

    Anastasiya1989 Greenhorn

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    #24
    Well, to avoid some difficulties (cultural, time difference, bad communication skills) I think it's better to cooperate with EE countries. They also offer the outsourcing services at reasonable prices but working with them is much more comfortable.
     
    Anastasiya1989, Nov 26, 2012 IP
  5. ryan_uk

    ryan_uk Illustrious Member

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    #25
    I have to agree totally. I work for a multi-national that has a lot of programmers from around the world, including India. We have sites in India and also a lot of Indian coders at sites outside of India, too. All these people, regardless of country, were hired for their skills. It doesn't matter where you're from: if you suck then you just plain suck.

    This is the only issue at times - communication. Clear communication is really important in coding, bug tracking, documentation, etc. However, it's not exclusive to non-native speakers; it's amazing how often people don't take the time to read what they've written (for example) before sending out it, committing it, etc.
     
    ryan_uk, Dec 3, 2012 IP
  6. DomainerHelper

    DomainerHelper Well-Known Member

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    #26
    Again, not touching this with a 10 foot pole. ROFL!
     
    DomainerHelper, Dec 3, 2012 IP
  7. ryan_uk

    ryan_uk Illustrious Member

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    #27
    So why don't you unsubscribe?
     
    ryan_uk, Dec 3, 2012 IP
  8. Rukbat

    Rukbat Well-Known Member

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    #28
    Of course, if someone wants a site written in colloquial English, and you write the site the way you wrote this post, the fact that you're "and Indian" will make a big difference. Even if you can write perfectly good colloquial English, the fact that your post is so grammatically sloppy would send many potential customers of yours screaming for the exits. (I wouldn't hire an Englishman or an American who wrote the way you do either, but the chance of finding an Indian who's as comfortable with English as a native English-speaker isn't great.)
     
    Rukbat, Dec 3, 2012 IP
  9. DomainerHelper

    DomainerHelper Well-Known Member

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    #29
    Ryan, take a joke and don't be a dumb*ss.
     
    DomainerHelper, Dec 3, 2012 IP
  10. ryan_uk

    ryan_uk Illustrious Member

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    #30
    You made it quite clear in your PM that your feelings about Indian coders aren't a joke.
     
    ryan_uk, Dec 3, 2012 IP
  11. DomainerHelper

    DomainerHelper Well-Known Member

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    #31
    Ok you want my professional opinion?

    I have not seen an Indian PHP coder that codes properly, securely and in the best interest of the client. I have seen nothing but half baked work that was rushed to get the job done by any means just to collect payment. This is from observation.

    1. All have embedded code and design. So, you have to pay just as much money to redesign than you paid for the project initially.

    2. Support.... NULL. If you want support, good luck. Indian coders book so much work at once, they have no time for support. I have NEVER gotten support from an Indian after they got paid.

    3. Who is doing the coding? That is the real question. I am actually on a project now, I was hired by an Indian firm that was hired by an Aussie firm. WTF? They have no idea they hired American! THey are getting no savings, they are paying double. I am charging $32 and hour, so essentially the Indians are scamming the client by saying it is cheaper.

    4. Indian tech schools suck. They really do. They are speed courses meant to pump out by the numbers, totally skimming on the quality. (I believe 20/20 did a show on this.)

    5. Back to translation.... one word out of proper context can change the meaning of a paragraph.... thus the scope of a project.

    Challenge what I have stated, but I don't have time to debate.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
    DomainerHelper, Dec 3, 2012 IP
  12. DomainerHelper

    DomainerHelper Well-Known Member

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    #32
    Ryan, I am sorry I hurt your feelings. Now go away. There are jokes with layers of seriousness. I should not have to explain this. Go cry somewhere, I am hitting the ignore button as that you are a troll.
     
    DomainerHelper, Dec 3, 2012 IP
  13. ryan_uk

    ryan_uk Illustrious Member

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    #33
    Glad to see you had the balls to express your real feelings.
     
    ryan_uk, Dec 3, 2012 IP
  14. DomainerHelper

    DomainerHelper Well-Known Member

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    #34
    Now that the troll is silenced, at least to me, I have some thing else to add.

    I am sure there are good PHP coders who are Indian, who went to REAL schools and learned REAL coding.

    The problem is filtering out the cookie cutter coders. The fastest way is to request a code sample. "If the code and design are one, then you must shun." A real coder makes software modular, portable, secure and clean. Code and design together does not meet the criteria.

    If the coder has to use Joomla, Wordpress or Drupal... then chances are that they are novices, or fooking lazy, and not ready for freelancing. Yes, all 3 of those suck and all levels. They just make dummies feel like real webmasters/coders, so they are popular.

    If the client REQUESTS open source, that is fine... nobody expects the client to be experienced.... at least nobody should.

    Politically: With the economy in many countries doing poorly, I am against outsourcing entirely.. especially for America where we send most of our money to other countries who'd rather kills us. Suck the money back from the countries we sent our money to... that will fix the economies.

    Then again, these thing apply to all countries and races, not just India.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
    DomainerHelper, Dec 3, 2012 IP
  15. ryan_uk

    ryan_uk Illustrious Member

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    #35
    There's good and crap in every country. Whenever hiring a coder, get them to send you example code and vet it (or get someone you trust to vet it, if you can't code). To avoid some ripped off code being sent to you, specify a unique project as part of the interview process. Ask for it to be annotated and accompanied by documentation. You want to make sure they (regardless of where they come from) can write well, as the code can become useless if they move on and it's a giant mess that no one can easily understand.

    We had this problem a couple of months ago when a server died. It was finally recovered, but found that a reporting system on it was very broken (to the point of being useless). The guy who coded it had retired long ago. It was badly coded in ASP, with no annotations or documentation. It was full of security holes. A new system is being coded from scratch, but going through the company's various quality and security controls this time to ensure it's up to scratch this time (it wasn't a system for clients, but in-house use and probably not even authorised, hence in such a bad state). It's still not in place yet (quality controls and security vetting and authorisation takes a long time), but fortunately it's not mission-critical.
     
    ryan_uk, Dec 3, 2012 IP
  16. Rukbat

    Rukbat Well-Known Member

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    #36
    There's an old adage, ryan, that free is usually the most expensive there is. Cheap is probably almost as expensive as free. Well-coded and documented code can be worked on by any competent programmer; a ton of spaghetti with no comments and non-standard coding methods usually gets an "I'm not touching that" response and, as you had to do, the client pays for it to be done a second time.
     
    Rukbat, Dec 3, 2012 IP
  17. DomainerHelper

    DomainerHelper Well-Known Member

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    #37
    Well said, Rukbat. In fact, I say "I'm not touching that, not without charging double" a lot. If it takes a week to decipher a software suite, then I charge for that time, not just the actual coding.
     
    DomainerHelper, Dec 3, 2012 IP
  18. Rukbat

    Rukbat Well-Known Member

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    #38
    Portal to portal. While I'm working on that site the clock for that site is running. Deciphering, analyzing - whatever it takes, if I'm doing it I'm charging for it. Usually the estimate turns the potential client off, though. When they ask why it will cost so much, some of them actually get nasty when I explain why it will take so much time. So I usually just turn spaghetti jobs down - I don't need the hassle.
     
    Rukbat, Dec 3, 2012 IP
  19. DomainerHelper

    DomainerHelper Well-Known Member

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    #39
    That is the beauty of charging double, if they take it then great. If they don't, great. lol
     
    DomainerHelper, Dec 3, 2012 IP
  20. DomainerHelper

    DomainerHelper Well-Known Member

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    #40
    Nice spam. Your English sucks. It should have read:

    If your team is so "quality", then why did you not proofread prior to posting your spam? LMFAO
     
    DomainerHelper, Dec 7, 2012 IP