1. Advertising
    y u no do it?

    Advertising (learn more)

    Advertise virtually anything here, with CPM banner ads, CPM email ads and CPC contextual links. You can target relevant areas of the site and show ads based on geographical location of the user if you wish.

    Starts at just $1 per CPM or $0.10 per CPC.

Application of 2257 to the ODP

Discussion in 'ODP / DMOZ' started by lmocr, May 13, 2006.

  1. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

    Messages:
    11,324
    Likes Received:
    615
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    310
    #241
    In the same way, you keep repeating that there is a support doesn't make it true either. ;)

    Move it out of adult section, tell the facts to editors and there will be a support but does it really matter what editors think? :confused:

    This is a quote from my previous post:

     
    gworld, May 19, 2006 IP
  2. brizzie

    brizzie Peon

    Messages:
    1,724
    Likes Received:
    178
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #242
    Not any more, its the non-Adult editors you have put off.

    Yes. But you are an editor, you know the process.

    You propose a change then debate follows. The original is rewritten a dozen or more times over 200 or so posts. Eventually you have a form of words that a large majority of participants support or don't object to and it gains a general consensus. If it is important enough you keep going until you achieve that consensus. If you can't get an overwhelming majority of supporters and no objections, i.e. there are a reasonable number of genuine objectors, then the change fails. At any point Admins or (AOL) Staff can rule one way or another regardless of editor opinion but don't do so arbitrarily. Once agreement is reached the change, whatever it is, is planned (if necessary) and implemented. Votes have been known where a need for change was accepted but editors had to choose between multiple versions. Other times the absence of negative opinions and a single option means consensus is obvious and no vote is needed.

    Often these threads go on for many months because editors have editing to do and you have to pause every so often so irregular editors don't get left out - 2 weeks minimum is needed to give everyone a chance to comment. Rushing things through doesn't happen in DMOZ.

    In this instance we are talking about changing some words and not about something that requires a technical solution so it would be implemented quickly once agreed.

    Where you get something like how to assist editors in assessing age verifications that could be quite complex to work out, a "project" might work best with a small band of editors working on a solution.

    Pretty standard stuff, happens all the time. I have been involved in a number of such debates over the years. Sometimes you win, sometimes you concede, sometimes things get bogged down and no-one agrees and the proposal simply dies.

    You are assuming there would be some kind of high level override at high level on this because according to your conspiracy theories this particular change is against the interests of a large number of people in power. I can't see that happening on those points that editors feel are practical and implementable. So could you get the three key points I itemised - I reckon these have good chances subject to wordings everyone thinks are reasonable. Could you get a requirement to do checks on legalities other than verifying ages of models somehow, not a chance.
     
    brizzie, May 19, 2006 IP
    compostannie and sidjf like this.
  3. compostannie

    compostannie Peon

    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    347
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #243
    Good answer brizzie! :)
     
    compostannie, May 19, 2006 IP
  4. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

    Messages:
    11,324
    Likes Received:
    615
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    310
    #244
    delete -double posting by system
     
    gworld, May 19, 2006 IP
  5. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

    Messages:
    11,324
    Likes Received:
    615
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    310
    #245
    Which non-adult editor are you talking about? If you mean lmocr, I didn't have that much expectation from her anyway. ;)

    I know the process, the same process that hasn't achieved anything in at least 6 years. You talk like a true consultant, let's talk, let's make project, let's make a report. The objective is not really to do anything, it is to maximize the number of billing hours. I know that you are aware that DMOZ is not going to pay for this but I suppose old habits die hard. ;)

    This is something that effects everybody, let's have it in general section when people can come up with suggestion, have a time limit on discussion like a month and put it to editors vote.

    But I understand your point also, what is the hurry? It has only been 6 years, let's discuss it for another 10 years. :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, May 19, 2006 IP
  6. compostannie

    compostannie Peon

    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    347
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #246
    At least she tried. She didn't realize you'd sabotage her effort right away, heck I didn't think you'd do that either. These bad editors that you insist are against change must be proud of you. (If they exist.)

    As long as you kill internal discussion, you'll keep things the same. But you already know that. Here, have some casserole. :rolleyes:
     
    compostannie, May 19, 2006 IP
  7. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

    Messages:
    11,324
    Likes Received:
    615
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    310
    #247
    You are right Annie, it is my fault that DMOZ lists child porn sites or doesn't want a guideline that stops such listings. :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, May 19, 2006 IP
  8. sidjf

    sidjf Peon

    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    49
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #248
    No, just your fault that discussions to make sure it doesn't get listed have been stopped. Of course, that was your goal - so I guess congrats are in order.

    Congratulations gworld! You helped to stop people from making the world a tiny bit safer for children.

    You claim to have multiple editor accounts, based on the scruples you have shown here I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you were going in and listing child pornography sites just so that you could "out" them here...
     
    sidjf, May 19, 2006 IP
    compostannie and brizzie like this.
  9. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

    Messages:
    11,324
    Likes Received:
    615
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    310
    #249
    Like I said before sid, run back to DMOZ and list couple of porn sites, so you can show how much you really really care. :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, May 19, 2006 IP
  10. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

    Messages:
    15,082
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    480
    #250
    What utter bullshit. If a single post by one editor on a forum like DP can "stop any improvements in the ODP", all I can say is (1) there obviously is no genuine will to make improvements in DMOZ and (2) those who just gave up on trying to make improvements either never had serious intentions in the first place or are obviously far too weak-willed, thin-skinned, and gutless to be taken at all seriously by anyone :rolleyes:
     
    minstrel, May 19, 2006 IP
  11. compostannie

    compostannie Peon

    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    347
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #251
    Boy gworld, why are you so grumpy today? None of your usual good natured jokes, just grumble, grumble, grumble. Maybe tomorrow will be a better day. :)
     
    compostannie, May 19, 2006 IP
  12. compostannie

    compostannie Peon

    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    347
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #252
    Or (3) they decide to work elsewhere or (4) they realize discussion will be sabotaged so they decide to work around it.
     
    compostannie, May 19, 2006 IP
  13. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

    Messages:
    15,082
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    480
    #253
    They're surprisingly easily put off, aren't they? :rolleyes:

    See above - it obviously didn't take much :rolleyes:

    No doubt they're proud of the rest of you for being frightened off so easily as well.

    Yeah right, sid... see above. Are you really that spineless and that easily intimidated? If so, I doubt that the chgildren of the world were taking much solace from knowing such courageous and determined editors were on their side and waging battle on their behalf :rolleyes.

    Honestly, people - do you actually believe any of this utter crap yourselves? Or are you aware how blatant and pathetic an excuse this is?
     
    minstrel, May 19, 2006 IP
  14. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

    Messages:
    15,082
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    480
    #254
    I hope that's the case. Anyone who gives up working for change because of a post or even an entire thread by anyone here, including me, is just too spineless to breathe on his/her own without guidance from an Admin.

    Really. :eek: :rolleyes:
     
    minstrel, May 19, 2006 IP
  15. compostannie

    compostannie Peon

    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    347
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #255
    Oh, I assure you, that's the case. I've cleaned some more garbage out of adult today and will do more tomorrw. I won't waste my time on internal threads that are bound to be sabotaged, even though those discussions must happen to write the guidelines so they're clear to everyone.

    There's an easy way to do things and a hard way. It's a shame we won't be able to do this the easy way but I'm certainly not giving up. Gworld's methods are nothing new, they've been successfully used by adult editors opposed to change before, so they are tried and true. This time there's too much commitment from too many editors to let the issue die. The work will be done, I just hope we can get the guidelines written clearly so sites like the ones we're removing don't sneak back in.
     
    compostannie, May 19, 2006 IP
    brizzie likes this.
  16. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

    Messages:
    11,324
    Likes Received:
    615
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    310
    #256
    I am just realizing how hopeless the whole thing is when you actually need to argue with people that they should write a line in the guideline that porn produced by people under age of 18 should not be listed. :( :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, May 19, 2006 IP
    brizzie likes this.
  17. compostannie

    compostannie Peon

    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    347
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #257
    I can understand that, but we can't stop trying can we? And we know what methods work so we should use those methods even if they're complete BS. We also know the methods that stop progress dead in its tracks, so we should use our heads to avoid those methods.

    Hope you feel better tomorrow. We have a lot of work to do. :)
     
    compostannie, May 19, 2006 IP
  18. brizzie

    brizzie Peon

    Messages:
    1,724
    Likes Received:
    178
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #258
    That is a very defeatist attitude gworld. There is always hope. Or what is the point of continuing your battle - you don't believe there is no hope obviously. Keep doing what you do best and pulling out the child porn sites so other editors can remove them. Or just apply for the rights and do it yourself. Or give it up and trust your colleagues within DMOZ to do the job.

    As I said to an Admin last year, I don't particularly like the "project" system they introduced, too much like work. But the prime reason why projects overrun on time and project? Too little prep work beforehand so the actual requirement is not properly defined so talk is important. You asked me to tell how it works though, that is what I told you. Doesn't mean I think its a wonderful system - I would like lots more polls myself. You don't rate the system then tell an Admin not me.
     
    brizzie, May 20, 2006 IP
  19. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

    Messages:
    11,324
    Likes Received:
    615
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    310
    #259
    The other alternative will be to set up a page with a form that people can just fill their email address, comment and will automatically be emailed to all executives in AOL, Google and Time Warner asking them if they like to be involved in child porn listings and why they don't take responsibility for fixing the situation in their company.

    AOL has already once escaped the legal responsibilities for child molestation as a result of a contact in a AOL chat room by hiding behind the law that carriers are not responsible for the information that is passing through their network but since DMOZ is publisher of these links and not merely a carrier, AOL can not hide behind the same laws, especially if it is shown that they were aware of the dangers. ;)
     
    gworld, May 20, 2006 IP
  20. compostannie

    compostannie Peon

    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    347
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #260
    Fine, do that if you like. While you're at it will you please, please, please let me know about any of those sites so I can remove them?

    You know I'm trying to learn how to edit in Adult even though I hate it. You know I'm commited to getting rid of any objectionable listings. You're very good at finding them, I'm not. Please, for the sake of children everywhere, will you work with me to get rid of them? Find them and tell me so I can get rid of them. I'd be proud to work on that type of project with you. We can get rid of objectionable listings, you can maintain your anonymity and the world will be a bit safer for the children. You can even continue your fight against DMOZ, AOL, Google, and Time Warner as we work to protect the children. Do this and everyone wins. Please!
     
    compostannie, May 20, 2006 IP