What part of my post is inaccurate? First result i found in google : http://www.iraqbodycount.net Estimated iraqi CIVILIAN deaths : 23,000-26,000 So we've caused the deaths of over 23,000 iraqi's in less than 2 years... That doesn't take into account the number of iraqi's that had their legs and arms blown off... that are still in the hospital suffering. That doesn't count the numerous amount of buildings and businesses are bombs have destroyed.. Heres another... 1,800+ american soldiers lives taken from this war. http://icasualties.org/oif/ How many of those 1,800 do you think were in Bush's family? ---------------------------------------------------------------- ARTICLE: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3962969.stm Notice the date (its important) ---->> Friday, 29 October, 2004 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Poor planning, air strikes by coalition forces and a "climate of violence" have led to more than 100,000 extra deaths in Iraq, scientists claim. A study published by the Lancet says the risk of death by violence for civilians in Iraq is now 58 times higher than before the US-led invasion. Unofficial estimates of civilian deaths had varied from 10,000 to over 37,000. The Lancet admits the research is based on a small sample - under 1,000 homes - but says the findings are "convincing". Responding to the Lancet article, a Pentagon spokesman defended coalition action in Iraq. 'Precise fashion' "This conflict has been prosecuted in the most precise fashion of any conflict in the history of modern warfare", he said. UK foreign secretary Jack Straw said his government would examine the findings "with very great care". But he told BBC's Today that another independent estimate of civilian deaths was around 15,000. The Iraq Body Count, a respected database run by a group of academics and peace activists, has put the number of reported civilian deaths at between 14,000-16,000. Violent deaths were mainly attributed to coalition forces - and most individuals reportedly killed were women and children. Dr Les Roberts, who led the study, said: "Making conservative assumptions we think that about 100,000 excess deaths, or more, have happened since the 2003 invasion of Iraq.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4692589.stm Tuesday, 19 July, 2005 Nearly 25,000 civilians have died violently in Iraq since the US-led invasion in March 2003, a report says. The Dossier on Civilian Casualties in Iraq 2003-2005 says 37% of all non-combatant deaths were caused by the US-led coalition. Insurgents are said to have caused 9% of the deaths, while post-invasion criminal violence was responsible for another 36%. At least 42,500 civilians were reported to have been injured. How Inaccurate my post was...
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/news/20030404-1.html They say some large numbers on there, but I could make the argument that you can't contribute all the deaths to Saddam himself. It was not only him, but his entire government. Just like I don't say Bush murdered 20,000 iraqi's.. our military did. I'm in no way trying to justify the things sadamm did.. all I'm saying is that America isn't some great freedom fighter saving everyone... we're killing innocent people and when their families turn around and attack us, they're terrorist... you don't see the hypocrisy here?? Using "saddam killed his people, blah blah" as an excuse for this war (now that we all know there were no WMD's) is BULL SHIT. China kills its own people, many countries in africa are committing genocide... a woman in pakistan or india was sentenced to be gang raped... what are we doing about these countries?? With the "saddam killed his people and we're freeing them" logic we ought to be invading 2/3 of the world....
Logic? LOGIC!? C'mon, my dear...surely you don't believe LOGIC plays any role in deciding who we're going to attack. Besides, Iraq is old news...it's time to move on!
IDK what to think anymore.. either way you slice it.. either side your on... innocent people are getting killed. Murder is taking place. Hate is being bred. Whether we didn't go.. or did. I could debate/argue on either side for hours on end... The world is just FUBAR'd... nothing we do can change that...
Come on Guys, the sign is correct. THE MISSION WAS ACCOMPLISHED, it was just not the mission that they told you about.
Not only did we set aside money to be appropriated to help, but we sent people and many organizations went over to help. We also sent logistical support, including food, heavy machinery, helicopters and more. We didn't have to do anything, but we did. I can't understand why anyone in the right mind would trivialize doing a right and just act of kindness to help others. It take no issue with the above statement. We should be focusing on our borders and it's one of several areas I fault Bush for. We need more/better border protection. Those pleasures "we" take part in, and some of whom value (while others don't) come at the expense of better men than either of us who have died fighting for our freedom. Some don't appreciate that, others do. When did we become responsible for Africa? If the killing in Africa disturbs you, as it does me, why not put the blame for genocide in Darfur on muslims, where it belongs? What has the UN done about it? What has the rest of the world done about it? Don't blame the US for something muslims are doing. Incorrect. Not enough information to determine if you are simply being deceptive, or just don't have a clue. Saddam killed over a million of his people. Intentionally. Mass graves are still being uncovered. The bombing that took place did so in the early parts of the war in the initial takeover. We are not bombing Iraqis nor are we there to kill them. There are many other countries that do this. I'm saddened by the way islamic countries treat their women. In Iran, they bury women standing up, so only the head is exposed, then stone them to death. For what? For it being their fault they were raped. Amonst other things. Or we could simply do nothing and blame the US for doing nothing, right? Isn't that your logic with Africa? Damn the US for doing something, damn them for doing nothing? Where's the logic in that? It's called war. We were at war with Iraq. We took him out. That part is over. We are now fighting terrorists that have infiltrated Iraq and are indescriminately killing Iraqis. Oddly enough, you forgot to mention any part of that or the fact that while we are doing our best to help build the country up, these terrorists are killing Iraqis and coalition forces daily. Why blame a terrorist for blowing up innocent kids deliberately when the US is right there to take the blame? Regarding your casualty report. The lancet report has been discredited a number of times since it was first published. The UN did a far more comprehensive report and estimated the number to be 24,000. The margin of error is so great and so expansive in the lancet report as to make it virtually useless to garnish any reliable data from.
The mission for that ship was accomplished at the time. Of course, you wouldn't want to mention that, as it might give a correct impression. Right, gworld? Just because you are disappointed saddam isn't in power and want the terrorists in Iraq to win, doesn't mean everyone does. Your hatred for the Iraqis is quite apparent. As is your support for the terrorists killing them daily.
I have never seen GWorld state that he wishes Saddam was in power or is in favour of terrorists. Neither have I seen in any post that he said he hated Iraqis or supported the wholesale manslaughter of them. He seems to me to be a compassionate man, who wishes only that everyone take a step back and think before pointing the finger of blame. You are obviously a very intelligent guy Gtech, but I think you may sometimes leap to the defence of your country when it is not your country that is in the defense box. In many posts there have been philosophical statements about the state of the world but your knee-jerk reaction seems to be to defend Bush's last stand. Believe me, outside the grand old US of A, when a discussion begins, America it's leaders and particular foreign policy is not always at the centre of it.
Gtechs achillies heel is that he finds it difficult to find fault with 'his side' He has a chink is his armour.
One need not come out and directly say what they feel. His words consistently say otherwise. In fact, I have given him numerous opportunities to say otherwise, in other threads, and he refuses. You would know this, if you were actually part of the discussions we had in other threads. And no, I'm not talking about making a feel good "fence sitter" post every 300 threads or so. Then I'm even more convinced you are not following other threads where we have heated discussions. Unless you too, are one that makes excuses for terrorists, defends their actions, lies and attacks the US and Israel and Chrsitians and Jews. If that's your kind of compassion, then I know where you stand. Such as? I will always defend my country from the likes of "gworlds" who persistently attack it with false and fabricated information. Who claim to be about equality, but offers one-sided attacks on anything US or Israel. Who claims to be athiest (so as not to have to defend anything) but attacks Christians and Jews with a hatred seen by another group I'm thinking of. Maybe if you followed other threads, you would know this, instead of calling me out like a modern day "billy the kid" when randomly stumbling onto a post without knowing about other discussions. Makes me no difference whatsoever. If I were in a popularity contest with thoughts outside the US, I'd make stupid comments like "no war for oil" and then have that "deer in the headlights look" when someone says "where's the oil." Here's my suggestion. Put me on ignore. I'm not here for a popularity contest and I don't make "fence sitter" posts to please everyone. If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.
I do stand for something Gtech, it is just not the same thing you stand for. I stand for people respecting people, regardless of where they come from, not regardless of what they do. America has one of the highest crime/murder/serial killer rates in the world. I believe the serial killers are mostly home-grown, milk-fed, white bread, common-or garden nutcases aren't they? Why is that? Still that is nothing more than an interesting digression. Bad people are grown in every country and do bad things. Jingoism doesn't help the situation. Please stop spraying spit over your keyboard and you put me on your ignore list. Okay, sweetie?
That was good e10. Nothing like yet another, attack on the US. Who disputes bad people are "grown" in every country? Is that what you are using, as justification, for doing nothing about anything? Interesting.
Whoever said I do nothing about anything? You don't know me and don't know what I have done, things I have done in my spare time or things I have done in a year of sabbatical. You are far to fast on the draw, dearie and it might do you good to take a deep breath from time to time and appreciate that people who are not on your plane are actually still on your planet. We are not enemies. At least I don't consider you my enemy. I do wonder though if you have the tolerance to see other people through anything but the veil of a US flag. All I was saying before (and in the red rep I gave you) was that your attack on Gworld was unwarranted and obviously beneath your capacity for debate. All you were showing was your own ignorance and intolerance of anyone who doesn't follow your party line.
Whether you think it was warranted, as I expressed, you are clearly not following other threads. If attacking the US and Israel and Chrsitians and Jews is your perception of compassion, then at least I know where you stand. When others are attacking my country, especially with lies and making excuses for terrorists, I tend to see them through the US Flag. I have no tolerance for the intolerant. On the other hand, I can certainly appreciate others points of views. DesignAgent and I disagree often, but certainly hash out issues and points of view. As I did when AnthonyCEA was here. What you won't see me do is blatanly say "you have a point" when someone is repeating something that simply isn't true.
That's really funny, Gtech! You're too much sometimes! Please tell me you're joking w/ that. Here's the opening line from the "Mission Accomplished" speech: