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Anyone have any opinions on WP Beaver Builder?

Discussion in 'HTML & Website Design' started by Shadowpro, May 31, 2015.

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  1. #1
    I came across this last week - it's a design tool for Wordpress that comes with a blank theme.

    You use a theme builder to create you theme, and then use a page builder to design the content, cutting out the need for custom code/ premium themes etc.
    https://www.wpbeaverbuilder.com/

    It seems like a very impressive tool, and supposedly creates hand editable HTMl & CSS so can be turned off leaving standard pages that can edited through WP Visual & Text editor.

    My designer seems to be of the opinion that I'm seduced by shiny things though:D
     
    Shadowpro, May 31, 2015 IP
  2. Patricia Ann Lee

    Patricia Ann Lee Active Member

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    #2
    I'm impressed, I want to give it a try. Unfortunately it is not something that I can use for free.
    It looks convenient and easy to use too. :)
    I am currently having a problem with my wordpress theme.
    I can't edit it, and when I do the page just keeps on loading (endlessly).
     
    Patricia Ann Lee, May 31, 2015 IP
  3. Shadowpro

    Shadowpro Active Member

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    #3
    Do you mean you can't get in the back end?
     
    Shadowpro, May 31, 2015 IP
  4. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #4
    Being turdpress what it vomits up and has the giant pair of brass to call a website is automatically trash -- and it being a "builder" only compounds the issue; much like WP itself it's cute for making a blog for grandma, but if you want to make a website for your business you'd be better off not even having a website! It just deludes you into THINKING you can have one.
     
    deathshadow, Jun 1, 2015 IP
  5. Shadowpro

    Shadowpro Active Member

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    #5
    Yeah, ok.
     
    Shadowpro, Jun 1, 2015 IP
  6. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #6
    Well, do you know HTML/CSS/Semantic markup/Accessibility minimums? Just look at the stock starting points like "Hope" -- setting aside the obvious flaws of fixed metric fonts and questionable colour contrasts, under the hood?

    First up it has the typical halfwit turdpress and html/css framework asshattery like:

    <body class="page page-id-775 page-template-default fl-builder fl-fixed-width" itemscope="itemscope" itemtype="http://schema.org/WebPage">
<div class="fl-page">
	<header class="fl-page-header fl-page-header-fixed fl-page-nav-right">
	<div class="fl-page-header-wrap">
		<div class="fl-page-header-container container">
			<div class="fl-page-header-row row">
				<div class="col-md-3 col-sm-12">
					<div class="fl-page-header-logo">
						<a href="http://demos.wpbeaverbuilder.com"><span class="fl-logo-text" itemprop="name">Beaver Builder</span></a>
					</div>
				</div>
				<div class="col-md-9 col-sm-12">
					<div class="fl-page-nav-wrap">
						<nav class="fl-page-nav fl-nav navbar navbar-default" role="navigation">
							<div class="fl-page-nav-collapse collapse navbar-collapse">
								<ul id="menu-main-menu" class="nav navbar-nav navbar-right menu"><li id="menu-item-838" class="menu-item menu-item-type-post_type menu-item-object-page current-menu-ancestor current-menu-parent current_page_parent current_page_ancestor menu-item-has-children menu-item-838"><a href="http://demos.wpbeaverbuilder.com/">Home</a>
    Code (markup):
    Which is one of those "If you don't know what's wrong with that you shouldn't be making websties or telling other people how to build them" moments, but it gets WORSE with the bootcrap nonsense taking a dump all over it as well.

    That's one giant bloated mess of ineptitude and failing to grasp how to leverage selectors for what any competent developer would probably simply have:

    <body>

<div id="top">

	<h1><a href="/">Beaver Builder</a></h1>
	
	<div class="call">Call Us: 1-800-555-5555</div>
	
	<ul id="mainMenu">
		<li><a href="/">Home</a></li>
    Code (markup):
    ... then people wonder why I wonder how anyone is DUMB ENOUGH to use garbage like turdpress, bootcrap, or now mouth-breathing halfwit nonsense like "site builders". Unless you are fully aware you are pissing in your own bed by taking a sleazy shortcut, it's not something one should be choosing to use.

    As evidenced by a stock page like "hope" wasting 34k of markup on delivering 1.4k of plaintext and ZERO images I'd consider content (as such they'd go on the CSS not the HTML) -- basically five or six times the code needed, and that's before we talk the batshit crazy 287k of CSS in 11 files with no media targets and ridiculous 206k of JS in 15 files -- when for just the screen target there is NO excuse for an entire site to use more than 48k of CSS in one file other than developer ineptitude, and I don't even see anything on that page that warrants the presence of JavaScript.

    How developer ineptitude like this continues to flourish escapes me apart from the ignorance of the average nube and/or clients not willing to make the investment it takes to make something that might actually be successful. See "Sophisticated Internet Investor, will give money for vague promises".
     
    deathshadow, Jun 1, 2015 IP
  7. Shadowpro

    Shadowpro Active Member

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    #7
    I can appreciate that there may be better ways to code, and enterprise software I guess is likely to be better maybe?

    But the point is that most of that does not matter to the website owners and users. Any solution is only as good as the value it brings to the customer, and since the customer is probably after a particular goal, say lead generation, and wants to enjoy the benefits as quickly and cheaply as possible, the best method of delivery is one that provides the goal cost effectively and quickly.

    The quality of the underlying materials is a secondary consideration at best as long as the product is fit for purpose.

    In car terms, people should buy a car that will cheaply, comfortably and safely get them from A to B. The fact that Bentley cars are are hand built out of adamantium and diamond with baby seal fur seats is irrelevant (at least it should be;)

    I understand your point - I've spent years trying to badger business owners into adopting quality server & network hardware, and wondering why they rarely did. I finally realised I had it wrong not them (or not entirely them at least). If it does the job and the risks are acceptable then it's ok.

    Out of interest - what DO you like?
     
    Shadowpro, Jun 1, 2015 IP
  8. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #8
    Only when it's a custom solution on the front end; content has to dictate markup since there's MORE to a website than the visual layout, and content+markup then dictates the layout otherwise you have an accessibility disaster.

    Sadly a lot of what people CALL "enterprise" solutions are overpriced garbage sleazed together by Visual Studio dumbasses even LESS qualified to work on websites as well. See forum software where quite often the more you pay the less it's worth.

    Thing is those "benefits" can be quickly tossed in the trash if the result has accessibility issues, and chews on bandwidth like candy making it more expensive to host IF it generates real traffic; sadly so many sites limit their traffic thanks to being bloated inaccessible wrecks the latter becomes a non-issue just to the site failing to reach it's traffic potential... or worse in the case of a business, having far fewer conversions.

    ... and the purpose of a website being to deliver your content to as many users as possible in as accessible a manner as possible; crappy underlying code can actually prevent that which again is why I can't fathom how anyone is DUMB ENOUGH to use turdpress for anything more than "A Blog for grandma"

    ... and then there's the 1987 Yugo GV built for the North American market; or pretty much anything made by BL.

    You would at LEAST hope the car is made out of steel and not pig-iron, and might include things like bumpers, seatbelts, a horn, working directional signals, muffler... Doesn't pull to one side because the left side of the car is 6" shorter than the right... Doesn't have the trunk lid fall off just because you dared to go over a speed bump... There's a difference between cheap and TOO cheap.

    Custom built solutions for the client that actually bother paying attention to the purpose of HTML, reason CSS exists, and bothers actually paying attention to accessibility guidelines like the WCAG, CLF, SWA, PAS78, etc, etc... since if you're not meeting even the simplest of those, well... you could face fines in some countries, you ARE alienating potential visitors, etc, etc...

    There's too much of this "I want it now, who cares if it screws me" nonsense right now -- and then people wonder why so many startups fail in their first year or stay stuck in "money pit" status for a couple years if they are lucky enough to have clients or patrons dumb enough to throw money at it. It's all part of the "credit mentality" of "Pay more later for something I can't afford now" that is just SUCH a brilliant plan of action. There are too many unrealistic expectations of time, cost, and effort involved right now, and endless crap websites that I would NEVER want to visit as a USER and are useless money-pits of zero real value to the site owners is the result.
     
    deathshadow, Jun 1, 2015 IP
  9. Shadowpro

    Shadowpro Active Member

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    #9
    Not got too much time right now, but remember that Groupon was started as a crappy Wordpress website.

    I know it's a rip off and probably heading for disaster, but ...
     
    Shadowpro, Jun 2, 2015 IP
  10. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #10
    Who? (googles) -- wow, that's pointless artsy fartsy crap I'd instantly bounce from thanks to it setting off my scammy sense. Look, illegible grey text in the legal, broken scripttard form asking for an e-mail addy as the ONLY thing resembling content on the page, and they took 3 megabytes in 32 files to pull it off.

    The REAL laugh being 1.3 megabytes of that in 12 files is JS, meaning that the scripttardery outmasses the IMAGES four to one... when it has a massive space wasting full screen background. WOW. That takes a certain kind of "special"...

    ... in the same way some Olympics are special.

    STUNNING example of what I'm talking about, and how to pretty much alienate users before they even know what the **** the site is for. PROBABLY why I never heard of them... Well, that and digging deeper bypassing the signup via the terms of service link (no "not now" button == epic fail) the nearest region they list for is 80 miles away.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
    deathshadow, Jun 2, 2015 IP
  11. Shadowpro

    Shadowpro Active Member

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    #11
    Also a stunning example of what I'm talking about.

    They posted revenue of $580 million in 2012.

    I think they have a flawed business model that won't have long term viability, as it relies on the businesses the sell coupons doing so at a huge loss in the hope that the new business will convert into fuure sales and therefore profits.

    That misses the point that the buyers are all bargain hunters with zero loyalty, and they will just buy from the cheapest place - more business done on Groupon. I think that's unsustainable though, as eventually the supply will dry up as businesses get sick of it or go bust.

    But, back to the point - I agree, horrible site, horrible business model, and objectionable way to conduct business. BUT, the CEO is worth $2 billion, and they now have serious buying power to get bigger through acquisition.

    That's my point - the vehicle doesn't matter in their case, and in the case of most businesses.

    I understand where you are coming from, and that site offends me too, but we are very much in the minority so we don't matter.

    If we did, Adobe would not exist and no one would be dumb enough to buy Apple gear :p
     
    Shadowpro, Jun 2, 2015 IP
    deathshadow likes this.
  12. deathshadow

    deathshadow Acclaimed Member

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    #12
    In other words, my opinion of faiths. Fair enough, never underestimate the stupidity of Joe Sixpack and Susie Sunshine.
     
    deathshadow, Jun 2, 2015 IP
  13. Shadowpro

    Shadowpro Active Member

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    #13
    Everyone walks their own path.

    Helping them walk, and find them new paths is our job ;)
     
    Shadowpro, Jun 2, 2015 IP