Anti-War 100,000 - Pro-War 400

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by gworld, Sep 25, 2005.

  1. ferret77

    ferret77 Heretic

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    #1921
    will,

    Do you have any idea childish you appear with kill this and kill that

    Do you have some sort of complex about some other inadequacy in you life

    We should kill them , we should execute them, I'd kill them etc

    You sound like a12 year old playing with his GI Joes or something

    Do you think it makes you sound tough or something? It just seems strange to me an adult talking that way
     
    ferret77, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  2. zman

    zman Peon

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    #1922
    How do you feel about the non religious right? :)
     
    zman, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  3. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

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    #1923
    I don't believe the death penalty itself increased homicides, however the states currently with the death penalty may have similiar situations, laws, etc who put more people into the mind set to commit a murder. I honestly don't know but statistics showing more murders in a state that has the death penalty doesn't necessarily prove it's the death penalty itself. If you have more stats or information on the subject though I'd love to see it.

    Again I do support the Death Penalty, but in a large part not how it's currently being used from what I've read. The most extreme crimes with absolutely no doubt the person is guilty and I have no problems with it.
     
    GRIM, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  4. uca

    uca Well-Known Member

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    #1924
    I don't think so, you are not looking at the phenomenon deeply enough, I am sorry.

    Let me ask you do you have any stats that show places and states that swicthed from death penalty to life imprisonment and viceversa and the effect on homicides being committed?

    Again, I don't know, I am guessing and I admit it, but what about you?

    And I also want to remind you that I am NOT in favour of capital punishment, on a personal level.

    Prisoners should work more than law abiding citizens and compensate the society for breaking the rules, the dead ain't going to pay anything...

    Forced labour, that sounds nice!
     
    uca, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  5. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

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    #1925
    Just a couple links for anyone to check themselves, anyone have some better ones please post them.

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=167
    http://justice.uaa.alaska.edu/death/history.html

    I honestly though could care less in my view point on the death penalty if it's effective at deterring murder or not. The main reason I support the death penalty in extreme cases is as follows.

    Such as had brought up in the thread a few pages back if someone rapes a little kid and kills the little kid I definitely would support the death penalty for this case as long as there is such an overwhelming amout of proof the person is guilty of the crime. If I was the parent of the child and there was no death penalty 'which there is not where I live' I more than likely would snap and kill the sob who did it. I realise alot of people say they would, some however who do say it will follow through. Now in cases such as this the person who simply was avenging their childs murder is going to prison where I personally would feel it would be justified.

    Right or wrong, helps the murder rate or not, I do feel in extreme cases if the proof is there the SOB deserves to die, by the governments hands or where the death penalty is not by the victims friends/family.

    I do however not support the death penalty for every murder or rape, I do support it for the 'extreme' cases in each instance of it.
     
    GRIM, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  6. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #1926
    You missed everything I wrote didn't you? Go back and read my last 3 or 4 posts and you will see why your response does not fit because I believe that if a person accepts Jesus as their Lord and savior they are Christians - the bible says this, it isn't a decided issue. And yes, many of us have set bad examples, not denying that either, just denying that nazis who don't believe what the bible says are Christian or those who go to church make them Christian.
     
    debunked, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  7. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #1927
    Thanks Will! It totally messed up the whiney liberals :) They're still trying to justify killing kids but that we should give a pass to child molester killers. Makes perfect sense to me, NOT!
     
    GTech, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  8. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #1928

    You better believe I would not let someone harm my kid twice, let alone the first time if I could help it. But, maybe I should just let them do those things, since they were born to harm, rape, steal, etc.. it is just a chemical imbalance.
     
    debunked, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  9. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #1929
    Looks like that's what yo-yo wants. To protect those most brutal in life so they have the freedom to harm, rape, murder others. And supports killing unborn children as well.

    Not unlike liberals that use the freedoms others have fought for, to defend brutal dictators and terrorists. I suppose that's what makes brutal dictators in the first place, people that think along those lines.

    Talk about a chemical imbalance!
     
    GTech, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  10. zman

    zman Peon

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    #1930
    Or narcissism...
     
    zman, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  11. uca

    uca Well-Known Member

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    #1931
    Fair enough then, let's say that death penalty isn't a good deterrent.

    So what works better as a deterrent?

    I don't have an answer, and probably there isn't.

    I still support forced labour until someone convinces me that there's better, at least society, the indirect victim other than the direct one, gets something back.

    Killing the criminal gives only a volatile satisfaction, unless the victim or relatives could do it personally.
     
    uca, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  12. zman

    zman Peon

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    #1932
    ummm... I missed a major chunk of the thread but just for the record, I do not support the death penalty because of some sort of "satisfaction". I support it because I want anyone who may consider killing another to know what will follow.

    Many prefer prison over day to day life in the real world because they lack the responibility to live successfully in it. Therefore, prison is not that bad of an option. However, if you were faced with the fact that you would have a deadly poison injected into your veigns it may just change your outlook on things.

    The punishment has to fit the crime. We are seeing it in child rape cases right now. The punishment currently DOES NOT fit the crime in many places so children are paying for the consequences.

    You kill, you die. You rape, you lose freedom. Simple really.
     
    zman, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  13. ferret77

    ferret77 Heretic

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    #1933
    Gtech perfers a government that controls personal lives, and forces one group religious ideology onto others, and society that resorts to killing people for punishments like in the medival ages, regardless that the justice system convicts the wrong people pretty regualary.
     
    ferret77, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  14. zman

    zman Peon

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    #1934
    Do you always claim the opposite of fact is fact, or just when you are here at DP?
     
    zman, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  15. ferret77

    ferret77 Heretic

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    #1935
    what do you mean? all you have to do is read the posts

    Dude Will thinks we should abort anyone who doesn't contribute to the tax base , just ask him.
     
    ferret77, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  16. uca

    uca Well-Known Member

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    #1936
    Usually it's for the satisfaction because that's human instinct.

    As a deterrent I can't see it working much better than imprisonment.

    You see the whole system should be revised.

    Life in prison for some is too comfortable, make them work hard and we'll see what they think about that.

    Further to the point, if someone kills once, that's going to be a bloody dangerous guy out there as he is going to have nothing to loose, do you understand what I mean?

    Anyway, in presence of better methods, I would abolish death penalty.:)
     
    uca, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  17. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #1937
    Do you do this to try to put words in peoples mouths or do you actually believe what you are saying- at this point I believe it is that you are putting words in peoples mouths, because I don't believe you are stupid.
     
    debunked, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  18. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

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    #1938
    I call it revenge, eye for an eye, whatever you wish to call it, I personally think it's right in the worst of cases ;)
     
    GRIM, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  19. uca

    uca Well-Known Member

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    #1939
    OK, revenge + deterrence + no more crime from the same person

    But what's your view on forced labour instead of death penalties, guys?

    I like it better, you have revenge (they are not going to enjoy it) + deterrence (they are not going to want to do it) + no more crime from the same person (they are going to be secluded from the society locked up in prison (camps) + it's economically profitable, perhaps not much, but it should pay itself at least and maybe more, and the society and the victim or relatives would get something back.

    Even for bankrupts I would see it (in a softer version of course) as a good deterrent to stay away from easy debt. All prisoners made to work hard and pay for themselves and their mistakes and crimes.
     
    uca, Oct 22, 2005 IP
  20. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

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    #1940
    With the correct proposal and as long as it's constitutional I do not see a problem with forced labour for inmates. If it's used however to make companies even richer like Wal Mart I would not support, doing jobs such as road crews and other public service work where inmates can do work I have no problem with it though. If they are working though they also should be treated properly like any workforce, not coffee breaks and benefits, but humane treatment all the same.

    --Adding I don't see it so much as a deterrent, but also a way for inmates to possibly learn a skill, if they are also paid even a few pennies per hour it can give them a few bucks when they get out of prison to have a chance of a non criminal life style more so than if they are released pennyless. If it also can help with paying for their time served, fines they owe, restitution, etc I see it as possibly a good thing. This however I don't see at all being a viable solution for the most violent and extreme criminals, basic thefts, drug arrests, etc but not murders, rapes, child molestation.
     
    GRIM, Oct 22, 2005 IP