Not only that, but the people who were actually caught "torturing" these killers and animals were tried and charged like they should have been. I'm talking about the loud music and sleep deprivation. Do you guys think that is too far as well? Yeah Rob, the same PBS that just went through a big funding fiasco because of BIAS fears.
Yes more than likely that is the case, but I see it being hard for us to play the high moral card when instances of torture happen by even a small portion of our US military. If you're in a neutral country and you hear the US speak of torture by one side your ears may perk, but then to see the next week the US guilty of even lesser crimes but torture all in the same your mind 'may' be neutral on the matter seeing both sides guilty of it. I could see a need for torture if it works and is needed especially in war, not our own citizens but I have a problem when we are ourselves break international law and then expect others to hear us when we rage about others breaking international law, war crimes, etc.
Excellent point. No production system will have zero defects. There will always be problems. We need to live in the real world.
I agree to an extent but what you stated could be turned around on you afterall there will 'always' be problems so why even do anything as even trying people and sending them to the chair the problem will still exist and a new problem may occur 'innocent people being put to death' I'm pro death penalty in the correct cases, with enough proof, much more so than a standard guilty verdict in a felony case.
Exactly. There is a huge difference between unapproved misbehavior that is caught and punished and an approved systematic policy. If a Norwegian kidnapped, tortured, and murdered an American citizen, America would expect Norway to prosecute that Norwegian. If Norway did so, that would be the end of it. If Norway, instead, had a policy of kidnapping, torturing, and murdering American citizens and broadcasting the show on satellite television, America would deal with Norway in a much different manner. I am completely amazed by the inability of a limited number of humans to see a difference between these two situations. It seems that they are so blinded by hatred that they are unable to use their mental faculties to normal effect.
And have long since been doing so at that. It's not like Abdullah the head chopper captured Jeff the infidel and says "hmm, you know Achmed, those US soldiers been hookin up our brothers pretty good, maybe we shouldn't chop off this guy's head?" I'm always enlightened to see those that bash America first show their *sincere* concern about a few possible abuses, but never a concern in the world for what the enemy we're fighting does. Well, except to make excuses for their actions. No country of origin, no uniforms, no rules, no geneva convention. And inevitably, their quest for moral equivalence will push them to say "we do it" when in reality, a "few may have done it, and were punished." Always the concern to bring a suspected torturer to swift justice, nare a care in the world about what they are up against.
No seriously, this "other side" is basically the rest of the World. Not just Iran, Iraq and whoever else we label as being EVIL.
Once again, you meet a real-world scenario with a black and white analysis. There will always be problems. Giving up is not the solution. The solution is to do as best you can and to build systems as well as possible to support the desired outcomes (freedom, liberty, justice, etc...) That's not exactly a new problem. Innocent people die -- they are electrocuted, hung, shot, stabbed, run over with cars, they get cancer, they get heart disease, they eventually just wear out. We all die, the innocent and the guilty alike. A hundred million of us have died in the last century at the hands of our own governments. That does not alleviate or obviate the need for those of us who remain to follow the basic rules of civilization, nor does it alleviate or obviate the need for civilization to protect itself and its members against those who fail to follow those basic rules.
Nah... Rob has always posted short and seemingly random irrelevancies. Rob's posts read like the guys who are paid 5 cents per post to get forums active.
Oh no, not the "hate" word! I'm not concerned about fairness to our enemies. I think that's where I differ with some here. Some are so concerned about all things being equal and fair to our enemies. My concern is wiping them out. I do not have, nor do I want to have touchy, lovey, hand holding, aromatherapy feely feelings for them. If that's labeled hatred, I'm quite content and proud to live with that!
I'm actually kind of OK with the concept of hating the bastards who murdered the Israeli athletes in Munich, who kidnapped the American students in Tehran, who bombed the Marine barracks in 1983 during a peace-keeping mission, who blew up Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie, who bombed the World Trade Centers in New York and then later flew two airplanes full of hostages into them a decade later, who attacked the Khobar towers and the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, who attacked the USS Cole, who murder patriotic Iraqi's to prevent them from building a better society, who torture and murder women who are guilty of the crime of being raped, who torture and murder individuals for posessing alcohol or pornorgraphy... I could go on. The alternative, hating the country which has nurtured and nourished me all of my life and which has been the driving force for freedom and prosperity on our planet for the last two centuries, seems to be a wee bit more of a stretch. But, that's just me and my hillbilly ways. I know a lot of "sophisticated" urbanites understand how it's all George W. Bush's fault.
Maybe with some fanatics but not with everyone, when the war first started their were kidnappings by local iraqis, where they didn't torture the people, they often released them un harmed, once the al queda people came thats when they started cutting of heads What we do now will reflect on future conflicts We cannot complain about people torturing our soldiers if we torture people. We have no moral high ground. So if you fine with torture you must be fine with our people getting tortured