Anti-War 100,000 - Pro-War 400

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by gworld, Sep 25, 2005.

  1. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #3101
    If the war was not about WMD, how did attacking Iraq made you feel safe? :rolleyes:

    Iraq was never involved in any terrorist action against USA, so in what sense attacking Iraq was fighting terrorists or lowering the risk of terrorism. It seems there is no logic between attacking in Iraq and you feeling safe. If just attacking another country makes you feel safe, wasn't better for USA to attack some small African country that wouldn't cause so much problem later on? ;)

    The last sentence about rewrite history is specially funny, do you ever have an original thought that has not come out of Bush mouth (his speech writers mind) ? :p
     
    gworld, Nov 15, 2005 IP
  2. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #3102
    May be you should write to NSA and tell them that I am "little willy" and I know that WMD existed and National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley doesn't know what he is taking about. :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Nov 15, 2005 IP
  3. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #3103
    Go away....
     
    Mia, Nov 15, 2005 IP
  4. ferret77

    ferret77 Heretic

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    #3104
    come back from vacation and here you guys still posting away

    you guys see the new torture story

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10051259/

    reminds of that drug commercial with the kid "I learned it from watching YOU ... "
     
    ferret77, Nov 15, 2005 IP
  5. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #3105
    Haven't you learned yet, that:

    Torture by people or governments that USA doesn't like is very very bad.

    But

    Torture by USA or people and governments supported by USA is very very good.

    :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Nov 15, 2005 IP
  6. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #3106
    I agree.. Arabs learn torture from other Arabs.

    "He said it was not a U.S. military-run facility and that he does not believe the American military was involved in the investigation."
     
    Mia, Nov 15, 2005 IP
  7. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #3107
    Show me where the US is torturing people? This I am gonna love to hear.
     
    Mia, Nov 15, 2005 IP
  8. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #3108

    It has been well known for some years that hundreds of graduates of the US School of the Americas (SOA) have been implicated in human rights violations in Latin America. In September 1996 the US Department of Defense released evidence that the SOA had used so-called ''intelligence training manuals'' between 1982 and 1991 that advocated execution, torture, beatings and blackmail. The manuals, written in Spanish, were used to train thousands of Latin American security force agents. Copies of these manuals were distributed in Colombia, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala and Peru. Following a public campaign to close the SOA, the US government has responded by renaming and reforming it. However, this military school is just one of over 150 centres in the USA and abroad where foreign officers are trained. Public information on the human rights content and impact of this training is minimal.

    USA - market leader in the torture trade

    Despite a recent name change, the military training school at Ft. Benning, Ga., formerly known as the Army School of the Americas, remains a festering sore in relations between the United States and Latin America.

    Congress ought to close this training center for Latin American soldiers, now named the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. A bill sponsored by U.S. Rep. James McGovern, D-Mass., would do that.

    The school was made infamous in 1996 with the release of a torture training manual used in the 1980s. It has schooled hundreds of soldiers who have committed documented human rights abuses in Latin America, including some of those involved in the murder of six Jesuit priests in 1989 in El Salvador. The links to such abuses continue, most notably in Colombia.

    http://www.religionnewsblog.com/7274-.html

    The Abu Ghraib torture techniques have been field-tested by SOA graduates – seven of the U.S. Army interrogation manuals that were translated into Spanish, used at the SOA's trainings and distributed to our allies, offered instruction on torture, beatings and assassination. As Dr. Miles Schuman, a physician with the Canadian Centre for Victims of Torture who has documented torture cases and counseled their victims, graphically wrote in the May 14 Toronto Globe and Mail under the headline "Abu Ghraib: The Rule, Not the Exception":

    "The black hood covering the faces of naked prisoners in Abu Ghraib was known as la capuchi in Guatemalan and Salvadoran torture chambers. The metal bed frame to which the naked and hooded detainee was bound in a crucifix position in Abu Ghraib was la cama, named for a former Chilean prisoner who survived the U.S.-installed regime of General Augusto Pinochet. In her case, electrodes were attached to her arms, legs and genitalia, just as they were attached to the Iraqi detainee poised on a box, threatened with electrocution if he fell off. The Iraqi man bound naked on the ground with a leash attached to his neck, held by a smiling young American recruit, reminds me of the son of peasant organizers who recounted his agonizing torture at the hands of the Tonton Macoutes, U.S.-backed dictator John-Claude (Baby Doc) Duvalier's right-hand thugs, in Port-au-Prince in 1984. The very act of photographing those tortured in Abu Ghraib to humiliate and silence parallels the experience of an American missionary, Sister Diana Ortiz," who was tortured and gang-raped repeatedly under supervision by an American in 1989, according to her testimony before the Congressional Human Rights Caucus.

    The long history of torture by U.S.-trained thugs in Latin and Central America under the command of SOA graduates has also been capaciously documented by human-rights organizations like Amnesty International (in its 2002 report titled "Unmatched Power, Unmet Principles") and in books like A.J. Langguth's Hidden Terrors, William Blum's Rogue State and Lawrence Weschler's A Miracle, a Universe. In virtually every report on human-rights abuses from Latin America, SOA graduates are prominent. A U.N. Truth Commission report said that over two-thirds of the Salvadoran officers it cites for abuses are SOA graduates. Forty percent of the Cabinet members under three sanguinary Guatemalan dictatorships were SOA graduates. And the list goes on . . .

    http://www.alternet.org/rights/19313/

    VICE PRESIDENT Cheney is aggressively pursuing an initiative that may be unprecedented for an elected official of the executive branch: He is proposing that Congress legally authorize human rights abuses by Americans. "Cruel, inhuman and degrading" treatment of prisoners is banned by an international treaty negotiated by the Reagan administration and ratified by the United States. The State Department annually issues a report criticizing other governments for violating it. Now Mr. Cheney is asking Congress to approve legal language that would allow the CIA to commit such abuses against foreign prisoners it is holding abroad. In other words, this vice president has become an open advocate of torture.

    His position is not just some abstract defense of presidential power. The CIA is holding an unknown number of prisoners in secret detention centers abroad. In violation of the Geneva Conventions, it has refused to register those detainees with the International Red Cross or to allow visits by its inspectors. Its prisoners have "disappeared," like the victims of some dictatorships. The Justice Department and the White House are known to have approved harsh interrogation techniques for some of these people, including "waterboarding," or simulated drowning; mock execution; and the deliberate withholding of pain medication. CIA personnel have been implicated in the deaths during interrogation of at least four Afghan and Iraqi detainees. Official investigations have indicated that some aberrant practices by Army personnel in Iraq originated with the CIA. Yet no CIA personnel have been held accountable for this record, and there has never been a public report on the agency's performance.

    Vice President for Torture

    Mia

    Do you need more or is this enough? :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Nov 15, 2005 IP
  9. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #3109
    Copy/Paste ---- Copy/Paste....

    Yawn...

    Go away copy/past troll!
     
    Mia, Nov 15, 2005 IP
  10. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #3110
    I see as usual you have no answer, would have made any difference if I would have typed everything myself? The facts are the facts and I always give a source for my claims, unlike your claims about WMD that even NSA disagrees. I think it is obvious for every one that you have nothing to say, except to repeat what Bush speech writers say like a parrot. ;)
     
    gworld, Nov 15, 2005 IP
  11. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #3111
    I can use the internet as a source for any point of view and have "facts" to present my point of view as fact, as well as your point of view as fact. Yes, I rely soley on the internet and my ability to copy/paste in order to prove/disprove everything.

    Smoke another bowl. Go away troll!!!!
     
    Mia, Nov 15, 2005 IP
  12. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #3112
    Still nothing to say on the subject. ;)

    Here is a suggestion, visit white house web site, read Bush speeches, may be you can find something on this subject that you can repeat like a parrot. :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Nov 15, 2005 IP
  13. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #3113
    That is because there is nothing to say.
     
    Mia, Nov 15, 2005 IP
  14. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #3114
    In the last 2 page, we discussed the following subjects:

    1- There was no WMD in Iraq.

    2- Iraq was no involved in terrorism actions against USA and attacking Iraq did not help with fighting terrorism.

    3- USA is involved in Torture.

    Since you admit that you have nothing to say to oppose the above statements, it is only logical conclusion that you accept the above as facts. ;)

    Thank you for finally opening your mind to the truth.
     
    gworld, Nov 15, 2005 IP
  15. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #3115
    And I said, who cares.

    Wrong on both points.

    No, it is not.

    Just because Julian says so, does not a fact make...

    Troll
    Thank you for finally opening your mind to the truth.[/quote]
     
    Mia, Nov 15, 2005 IP
  16. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

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    #3116
    Unrelated, but Mia you in the path for tonight's snow? I am dreading it :(
     
    GRIM, Nov 15, 2005 IP
  17. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #3117
    Mia

    You sound like a 2 years old jumping up and down saying NO, NO,..

    If you have anything to say in defense of your statements, please do so but if you still think that you have nothing to say then just accept the facts instead of acting like a baby. :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Nov 15, 2005 IP
  18. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #3118
    Man I hope not. I've got the 440Mhz Ham/Weather Station going and it looks like it. They are saying 32 for the low, which is ideal for snow given it is already raining. The rain is supposed to change to snow overnight with some occasional snow showers in the AM with highs around 35. I guess Saturday was the last time I will ride the V-Rod this year.

    I've got some tower work to do, installing a new wireless system in Elkhorn so I hope it gets it out of its system since all my work is outdoors tomorrow...

    My car had $1800 in damage BTW from the wind storms. Getting the doors repaired, repainted and entire car buffed, that and a new wind shield. Right now I've got an all wheel drive SUV (loaner) so I should be fine if it really starts snowing. I can't wait to get my Olds back...
     
    Mia, Nov 15, 2005 IP
  19. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #3119
    I suppose I should not complain about the rain in Vancouver. :D
     
    gworld, Nov 15, 2005 IP
  20. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #3120
    I've got one, so I can relate (2 year old that is), but now... Relatively calm working on my kitchen (promissed my wife I would finish it). Last counter is currently being laminated. Could not be more content at the moment.

    When you make statements that are unfounded it is rather pointless to waste time countering them. If I wanted to go in circles I would watch NASCAR.
     
    Mia, Nov 15, 2005 IP