Anti-War 100,000 - Pro-War 400

"Suspicions about a deal between the Reagan campaign and Iran over the hostages have circulated since the day of President Reagan's inaugural, when Iran agreed to release the 52 American hostages exactly five minutes after Mr. Reagan took the oath of office. Later, as it became known that arms started to flow to Iran via Israel only a few days after the inauguration, suspicions deepened that a secret arms-for-hostages deal had been concluded. Five years later, when the Iran-contra affair revealed what seemed to be a similar swap of hostages for arms delivered through Israel, questions were revived about the 1980 election. In a nice, ironic twist, the phrase `October surprise,' which Vice Presidential candidate George Bush had coined to warn of possible political manipulation of the hostages by Jimmy Carter, began to be applied to the suspected secret activities of the 1980 Reagan-Bush campaign... In a Madrid hotel in late July 1980, an important Iranian cleric, Mehdi Karrubi, who is now the speaker of the Iranian Parliament, allegedly met with Mr. Casey [Reagan's campaign manager and later his Director of the CIA] and a U.S. intelligence officer who was operating outside authority. The same group met again several weeks later.... From Oct. 15 to Oct. 20, events came to a head in a series of meetings in several hotels in Paris, involving members of the Reagan-Bush campaign and high-level Iranian and Israeli representatives. Accounts of these meetings and the exact number of participants vary considerably among the more than 15 sources who claim direct or indirect knowledge of some aspect of them. There is, however, widespread agreement on three points: William Casey was a key participant: the Iranian representatives agreed that the hostages would not be released prior to the Presidential election on Nov. 4; in return, Israel would serve as a conduit for arms and spare parts to Iran. At least five of the sources who say they were in Paris in connection with these meetings insist that George Bush was present for at least one meeting. Three of the sources say that they saw him there... Immediately after the Paris meetings, things began to happen. On Oct. 21, Iran publicly shifted its position in the negotiations with the Carter Administration, disclaiming any further interest in receiving military equipment.... Between Oct. 21 and Oct. 23, Israel sent a planeload of F-4 fighter aircraft tires to Iran in contravention of the U.S. boycott and without informing Washington. Cyrus Hashemi, using his own contacts began privately organizing military shipments to Iran. On Oct. 22, the hostages were suddenly dispersed to different locations. And a series of delaying tactics in late October by the Iranian Parliament stymied all attempts by the Carter Administration to act on the hostage question until only hours before Election Day... On Jan. 15, Iran did an about-face, offering a series of startling concessions that reignited the talks and resulted in a final agreement in the last few hours of Jimmy Carter's Presidency. The hostages were released on Jan. 21, 1981, minutes after Ronald Reagan was sworn in as President. Almost immediately thereafter, according to Israeli and American former officials, arms began to flow to Iran in substantial quantities... Moshe Arens, the Israeli Ambassador to Washington in 1982, told The Boston Globe in October 1982 that Israeli's arms shipments to Iran at this time were coordinated with the U.S. Government `at almost the highest of levels.' ... The allegations of these individuals have many disturbing implications for the U.S. political system. One is the tampering with foreign policy for partisan benefit. That has, of course, happened before and it may well happen again, but it assumes special poignancy in this case since it would have involved tampering with the lives and freedom of 52 Americans. Another implication is that leaders of the U.S. exposed themselves to the possibility of blackmail by Iran or Israel. Third, the events suggest that the arms-for-hostage deal that in the twilight of the Reagan Presidency became known as the Iran-contra affair, instead of being an aberration, was in fact the re-emergence of a policy that began even before the Reagan-Bush Administration took office."

New York Times, 15 April 1991

It seems New York time believe this load of crap also.

Here is a link to Federation of American Scientists that still has the article and even the one from Boston Globe.

What is couple of more of being hostage in Iran if it can help to get Reagan elected, right?

 

I've wondered all of my life. I would also like to know how whatever reason there may be could justify 2,000 years of persecution in Europe. I'd like to know what exactly gives people the right to look at Jews like 2nd rate citizens in so many nations. I know how France and Germany are towards Jews (still to this day). The good righteous countries. I also know that the obsession with Israel is not something that is justifiable. Yes, there are Jews in my family. I would like to understand what exactly it is that my family is so fucking guilty of that it would justify the fear whenever being outside of the United States. I'm not against anyone. Why do others have a right to hold their grudges forever and act upon them freely? Racism is wrong no matter who it is against. I am not racist against Arabs but Islam puts fear in me and the fear has disappeared since Bush has taken office (as long as I am on American soil).

People who are not jewish don't know what it's like. Same like white people don't know how African Americans or any race for that matter may feel for being looked at and treated differently than the average white guy would be.

So basically, if you have a good reason, I would like to know and I don't mean that sarcastically. At least it would give me some answers to questions I have always had.

 

Neither am I, at the moment. Not that I have any faith much of the rest of the world would do anything anyway, other than surrender.

Peace doesn't bring peace. Force preserves peace.

 

What do they care?

It's not like the Iranians will have enough bombs to nuke France, Germany, Russia, or China.

The French would love to see Israel and the U.S. nuked.

 

Not saying they would, but to use the rest of the world in one instance I would think it would work in others as well

 

I dunno man.

I'm a Mick and your OK with me.

 

Thanks, dude!

 

'ya lost me.

Who, other than you, used "the rest of the world"?

 

Really? Can you tell which one of the suspicions and accounts of stories they believe? I sure can't.

 

Ferret, I would like to hear why you hate the jews.

Also, why do you stoop to class "warfare" just because someone wasn't born with a silver spoon does not make him less than human.

 

I have no idea either, I know the arab jew thing is mostly over land and oly sites, but what was the reason the with the nazis

this is sort of interesting

http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/hitler/hitler.html

NAZI ANTI-JEWISH SPEECH
VS. RELIGIOUS RIGHT ANTI-GAY SPEECH:
Are They Similar?

 

Not only am I told it's not wise to have political discussions online, but also not to reveal ethnic backgrounds. But what I read in here from some people is just making me sick (no, not you Ferret, you always openly say what you think and I respect that). But turning things around where we are always made to be the bad guy ... let's remember the wrong doings thruout history.

If you go to Israel and talk to some young people, they will tell you how sick they are of targeted and how they just want to be able to live their lives. Appearently many have a problem with that and we need to cater to them, right?

 

Was responding to Gtech Althought technically he did not state 'the rest' he stated 'much of the rest' my bad.

 

Despite the fact that right NOW, they are learning the hard way that appeasement doesn't work.

 

Uhhh... dude... as soon as the Religious Right starts putting homosexuals in gas chambers, you let me know.

 

I did that just for you!

Which part are you arguing again? I saw the post where you said what your position was, but it gets quickly forgotten when reading your posts.

 

Ahh... now I'm caught up. Thanks!

 

I don't support self righteous Christians and many speeches given by Christian leaders don't reflect the opinions of those that they represent. Is homosexuality a sin? Yes I believe so, and so is the fact that I have sex out of wedlock. So it's not anything about judging to me. Just calling a spade a spade and believing that God will forgive me and those who follow him.

 

I am agreeing Iran is evil, I am also urging restraint at this moment

Believe it or not it's ok to disagree to an extent even with those you agree with. Some for instance might be for attacking right now, others a few months down the road, others only if enough proof given, and yet others will be against it no matter what.

 

I don't hate the jews,

umm, I wasn't "stooping" to class warefare, I think it was will who was infering that someone went to public school is inferior

I was mererly responding to it

I thought it was Ironic that Will who in another thread said he came from a dirt poor family that could not afford furniture or even food, would say such a thing. Most poor people go to public school, the comment infers that he, being superior had some other sort of schooling

Will do you ever take your muslim wife home to hang out with your family who has no furniture?

Maybe you guys all go to that soup kitchen you said you volenteer in?