There are many stories showing where and how the very 'limited' details we are even allowed to know of how the patriot act indeed is abused and or erodes freedoms. To many stories to honestly list, to many facts against it to list on this forum. Maybe the best way would be for me to compile a website myself listing links and quotes, if I can find the time I would be glad to do so. How about the ala, http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/ifissues/nslsctfinal.pdf The below quote is from http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/ifissues/usapatriotact.htm Which again shows it hard for any facts to be out as a gag order on the effected individual, he/she can not even discuss what has been done to them. Another thing that bugs me about the patriot act, those in favor have in fact been using it for a building block to gain even more powers over the citizens of this great land as somewhat apparent in the quote above. Any building block even 'if' it did not erode any rights in itself is just as dangerous as an act that does erode rights. A few more points Taking away the probable cause statute for an american citizen I will be against no matter the crime, a non US citizen I have absolutely no problem with. A federal court ruling an item unconstitutional I would believe is all the proof anyone would need to state the patriot act not in full, but at least in part does erode rights does it not? Again I am arguing against the full act itself, simply to be reworded to protect american citizens, if it takes court orders than so be it, but I would think it be impossible for anyone to argue it does not erode any rights of which you appear to be still doing. http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/11.15D.jvb.cm.usapa.1.htm I think yet again anyone should raise an eye brow when seeing how this act was written in a couple of days? Nope because it wasn't in many articles it shows how the 'patriot act' was in fact laws that many have been trying to get through for years, but were unable to because of constitutional issues, terrorists hit and rename it the patriot act and wow it sails through w/o any problems. No real debate by our congress, for or against the patriot act I myself would hope most of you out there would wish the congress to look over all the facts on any bill before they vote on it. It's easy to see in the name of fear and terror it was rushed into law without any real debate, or even looking into the facts of what the act does in it's full details.
If you are not American, where are you from? It sounds to me you are from east Europe or some where else where people are used to be treated like sh*t by police and government and have no rights. If this is the case, I can understand that you consider patriot act just business as usual and the same as home.
It makes no difference to you as long as you can own some sort of a gun? Not sure I understand what you're saying here, I will gladly respond to this more, I brought it up as I figured you being a conservative you would easily see an erosion taking place in this instance, if not than I guess I assumed incorrectly. I however would gladly argue an erosion of rights for the 2nd amendment. There realy isn't a need to if you've read the patriot act as it clearly does not state everything in it is just for 'terror' http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=detail&storyid=143236 My main complaint about this provision is pretty much the same as this republicans. Of which if you had ever read the patriot act, you'd see it is not just for 'terrorism' Much of this appears very broad to me, a good lawyer could easily twist the meaning of this part alone against anyone who disputes and is trying to change the policy of the government. Please see my previous posts as I've clearly stated non US citizens and or Terrorists, those who are proven to be a member of Al qaeda I would think could easily be charged with treason of which yes the patriot act could still apply to them. I have not once stated it should not in such a case. I guess nothing realy, just love how those can post they are against 'big government' but then support legislation that is by far 'big government' Just doesn't add up in my opinion. I have previously listed a few of them but here are a couple of them yet again of which the patriot act can easily erode, does erode or be the stepping block to erode.
Patriot Act being a building block. Thank god the patriot act 2 does not appear to have the possibility to ever get into law, but just a few points of what this would have added.
Yeah, my English is rusty, but I am actually from Western Europe although born in the UK, my parents are Italian and Australian, girlfriend American with plans to get married this coming August in Tuscany. I am not used to that crap because I never got into trouble. I am a law-abiding citizen that has nothing to hide. No driving license penalty points either in the UK, the US, ITA that are the places where I drive the most. Very rarely I got a ticket and only for parking offences. So I'm sorry I am not used to be treated as shit, actually the police in England are usually incredibly polite if you aren't doing anything wrong. They've been fine so far in America, even at immigration. In Italy they sometimes give you some shit, but that's because they mostly come from the Southern regions where they are a little behind compared to my area, that is Tuscany in the northwest. I know they are better avoided in Turkey, where I learned some horror stories while on a NATO exercise years ago. But so far, I never got into trouble, did you? It sounds to me that you must have some kind of problems, now or in the past. I am sorry...
UCA, if you've been in trouble or not does not matter. What matters is that the rights of the constitution of which this country was founded on, and which makes this country great are not eroded or infringed. It does not matter if you have anything to 'worry' about or not, if someone trully loves this country for which it stands they will fight for the rights of the common every day citizen and even the criminal alike for the freedoms and rights granted under our constitution. W/O those freedoms fully in place I see it as a blow to our great land, a much larger blow than any terrorist organization could ever dream of inflicting upon us.
Well congratulation on your marriage, but it is obvious that you have no knowledge about Constitution and it's importance in American culture and government. Perhaps you should study it and learn about it's historical, social and political significance before announcing that it is OK to demolish it if it makes you feel safe.
There's a lot I still have to learn about the US, although something I know already, but if it's not as I like it, I can still fight and vote to improve it, as I am soon going to staying and working in the US. Right now I can't work there. I always find it so difficult to play silly board games such as Balderdash when American history is the subject! Anyway, you are not going to shut me up just because I don't know the constitution better than you, there's other guys here that seem to have similar ideas to mine and are American, as a matter of fact! Thanks for the congrats, how about someone from DP showing up for the stag party which is going to be in the British Isles (don't know where yet, prob Scotland, could be Ireland, prob not Wales, not London)
Yes and one of the great things about being a US citizen is that you can speak your mind, if you become one you will be granted the same rights as me or any other US citizen. I however will use my freedom of speach to fight for all rights for all US citizens, and not to erode those freedoms. Some within the US have different opinions, some base those off their religious beliefs, their moral beliefs, etc. Some such as I try to base mine alot off of which the land was founded on and the constitution, however even within those who try to argue such as I there will be differences in opinion on what the constitution was intended for, and what causes and erosion of a right and what does not.
I didn't try to shut you up. I suggested that you should study the subject before making silly statements. I can agree with you that some rednecks or an odd fascist who are American can suggest to demolish the Constitution but the idea of Constitution is so deeply rooted in American Culture that most Americans will think that you are totally crazy.
OK, I will shut up and study the subject more in depth but only while you answer GTech's questions... GTech, he's all yours! I am going home in a short while (7.20 pm here )
It is good to see you are back but you never answered my question from before. I am just curious, did you ever served in the military?
It has been answered by I, yo-yo and hrblcantra but since our answers goes against everything that a fascist believes, you most likely will not consider it because it will not make any sense to you.
The whole article is good, but here are some important parts: http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed072304b.cfm What? Hold on, wait a minute! The mother of all treasonous organizations and enemies of the state, the ACLU, has NOTHING? Oh, they should be outraged! Oh, what's a terrorist to do these days