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Anchor Text Question

Discussion in 'Link Development' started by Chiara, Oct 21, 2004.

  1. #1
    I'm still learning about using anchor text so forgive me if this sounds really dumb. I was just wondering how many links with targeted anchor text one would need to go from, say, a position of #200 in google to the Top 10 for a keyword that brings in about 700,000 results in Google. Would one need hundreds of links using that keyword? More?
    SEMrush
    How about going from position #40 to top 10 for a keyword with 40,000 results?

    Does it make a difference if they are links from other pages of your own site or external links? Am I right that I would need more if they were coming from my own site and not another site?

    It seems most of my keywords are hovering in positions 40-200. I'm just trying to get an idea of how much work I have to do. :)
     
    Chiara, Oct 21, 2004 IP
    SEMrush
  2. daamsie

    daamsie Peon

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    #2
    Hi Chiara,

    It also depends on the pagerank of the site linking to you. If a PR10 site linked to you only once with that keyphrase, you would probably be on no.1 :)

    If a PR1 linked to you with that keyphrase, it would likely have little effect. It does depend on how SEO minded the other competitors are though. Some phrases with 700,000 results have more competitive people at the top than phrases with millions of results.

    A keyword with 40,000 results? You should really be on the front page with very little effort.

    I'm not sure about the external / internal debate. I tend to think that external links do have some extra value, but that's only guesswork. Others say all pages are treated equally.
     
    daamsie, Oct 21, 2004 IP
  3. Chiara

    Chiara Peon

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    #3
    Thanks for your comments. I thought I was understanding all of this, but since I'm still at #38 for a keyword with 40,000 results I think I need more help. I was wondering if adding a link with that keyword to 100 other pages on my site would help. These other pages range in PR from 0-5.
     
    Chiara, Oct 21, 2004 IP
  4. disgust

    disgust Guest

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    #4
    the number of results is no measure at all of how hard it will be to rank.

    to see how difficult it will be, check out the number of links your competitors have. especially the top ten ones.

    there are no definite answers for how many links you'll need. it depends on what they have, and the quality of the links you're getting.
     
    disgust, Oct 21, 2004 IP
  5. Chiara

    Chiara Peon

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    #5
    Thanks - I wasn't even thinking of that. It's starting to become clear.

    I'm going to try linking to a few terms from about 200 pages on my site and see what happens. It doesn't look like many of the people in the top 10 for a lot of these terms have many backlinks at all.
     
    Chiara, Oct 21, 2004 IP
  6. disgust

    disgust Guest

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    #6
    if they're not showing many, it shouldn't be that hard. start with optimizing your anchor text on internal pages. next work on getting some inbound links from other sites; open up a reciprical link exchange page and exchange pages with similar sites. you can try joining the digitalpoint ad network too, that works quite well :)
     
    disgust, Oct 21, 2004 IP
  7. vlead

    vlead Peon

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    #7
    During your quest for backlinks with your desired anchor text you should not forget the importance of on-page elements. IMO both are equally important.

    As far internal/external links are concerned... I strongly feel external links are given more weightage as compared to the internal links.
     
    vlead, Oct 22, 2004 IP
  8. Chiara

    Chiara Peon

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    #8
    Thanks everyone. I have managed to get some backlinks but unfortunately they do not contain helpful anchor text. In future, I will try to request that a specific anchor text is used. I tried to join the digitalpoint ad network but my web host doesn't have the right program - ASP I think? It looks like it's working really well for everyone, though.

     
    Chiara, Oct 22, 2004 IP
  9. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #9
    All of the above, plus to really find out the competition you need to find out who is optimising, not how many pages there are.

    intitle:your keywords will give you a list of sites if the words appear in the page title.

    alintitle: will ive you all the words
    intitle:"your words" should give you pages where it appears a phrase in the title.

    Inanchor:www.your words - will give you a list in order of the sites that have the most links with that anchor text.

    There is a lot more, but no point in spinning you out so early. Use the above information to analyse and look for chinks i the armour. If a site has got to the top purely on links, then optimise your site, and go after his links. Don't get hung up on the top site, they are often optimised and will worry you if your new. Take a look at 3,4 or 5 to start with, these are less likely to be optimised (Unless the phrase is competitive where the top 50 or more might be). in a case like this, a beginner is not going to get ranked if they are up against professionals who know what they are doing. (Not all professioanls know what they are doing :)

    Have fun,
    OWG
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Oct 22, 2004 IP
    ViciousSummer likes this.
  10. Foxy

    Foxy Chief Natural Foodie

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    #10
    I'm sorry but this is just not true any more - this is the belief about PR that gets said time and time again and is just not correct. There are many threads here about it showung that it does not matter - for an example go to McDars tool
    http://www.mcdar.net/KeywordTool/keywordtool.asp and put in what you want.

    What matters is the anchor text - go look at the results of the big experiment here http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=256 [which uses this tool quite a lot].
     
    Foxy, Oct 22, 2004 IP
  11. daamsie

    daamsie Peon

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    #11
    Hi Foxy, that would mean that PR is totally useless. In my above example, if there were two identical isolated pages (with no other links inbound whatsoever) on the internet and one had a PR10 link to it saying 'bla bla bla' and the other had a PR1 link to it saying 'bla bla bla', I still maintain that the new PR9 page will rank better for 'bla bla bla' compared to the PR 0 page with 'bla bla bla' linking to it. Do you honestly suggest that this wouldn't be the case?

    I'm trying to follow along on the logic in that thread you linked to, to see if I can jump to the same dramatic conclusion. It would baffle me if that were the case.
     
    daamsie, Oct 22, 2004 IP
  12. Foxy

    Foxy Chief Natural Foodie

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    #12
    I know that it sounds improbable but go to Mcdars tool

    http://www.mcdar.net/KeywordTool/keywordtool.asp and type in www.growlers-sausages.com and the keyphrase "weber bbqs" - this is what you get:

    Keyword: weber bbqs

     
    *A* = Position in top 100 for allinanchor: Look up in Google

    Your Site: in Google
    Pages
    Links
    PageRank
    *A*
    Yahoo Links

    Top 10 for Keyword Search in Google
     

    1. www.forsyth4.co.uk
    460
    45
    3
    -
    628

    2. forums.digitalpoint.com
    78200
    0
    3
    -
    6330

    3. forums.digitalpoint.com
    78200
    0
    2
    3
    6330

    4. www.dogpile.co.uk
    21500
    0
    3
    -
    1460

    5. www.pricerunner.co.uk
    208000
    8
    0
    -
    88900

    6. www.pricerunner.co.uk
    208000
    2
    0
    -
    88900

    7. www.grillstuff.com
    351
    0
    3
    -
    1220

    8. www.barbecue-online.co.uk
    724
    0
    0
    6
    1540

    9. comparestoreprices.co.uk
    204000
    2
    3
    4
    11400

    10. www.weber.com
    1310
    0
    0
    5
    4290
     
    Foxy, Oct 22, 2004 IP
  13. daamsie

    daamsie Peon

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    #13
    Hi Foxy,

    I'm struggling with how to interpret those results meaningfully. If I look at it, to me it looks like www.forsyth4.co.uk is winning the competition because it must have
    a) better on page optimisation
    b) slightly better PR (a higher 3 perhaps, or maybe even an undisplayed 4)

    It is also worth noting that PR values for pages are very often not up to date in Google, so whereas the pricerunner pages are showing a PR0, they may very well be higher. Either way, I REALLY don't see how those results prove your point.. You need something more dramatic and with less variables, like the test I suggested above. Either that, or explain it to me like a dummy, because I don't see the point. :)
     
    daamsie, Oct 22, 2004 IP
  14. Chiara

    Chiara Peon

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    #14
    Ok everyone - here's an example of one I need to get higher. I have one page on my site that has a PR5 but does not show up anywhere in the results for "widgets" because there are no links with "widgets" as anchor text pointing to it. So I looked on McDar tool (neat tool!) and here are the results:

    #1 result has a PR5 and 29 BL
    #2 result has a PR4 and 14 BL
    #3 result has a PR4 and 6 BL
    #4 result has a PR5 and 9 BL
    #5 result has a PR5 and 28 BL

    Since my page has PR5, shouldn't I be able to get that page to the top if I add 100 internal backlinks with "widgets" as anchor text?
     
    Chiara, Oct 22, 2004 IP
  15. daamsie

    daamsie Peon

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    #15
    errr.. got to page 13 when I realised it was 131 pages long, not 131 posts. Sorry, but that will take me too long to possibly read all of it. Please, point me to the findings :confused:

    There are so many variables, a simple statement like that isn't necessarily true.

    1. How many backlinks does the no.1 have with the term 'widgets' in the anchor text? Not just the ones that google reports with its link: command either. they may very well have thousands of BL from PR1/2/3 pages.
    2. What is the PR of those pages linking to the no.1 (I'm still convinced that it plays a part).
    3. What is the on-page optimisation like (not nearly the most important thing in G, but the TITLE of the page plays a very big part!)

    Just my 2cents of course :D
     
    daamsie, Oct 22, 2004 IP
  16. vlead

    vlead Peon

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    #16
    If you get 100 backlinks with "widgets" and have sufficient on-page "widgets", you will get to #1. Remember on-page elements are very important do not ignore them. If Google see those 100 "widgets" links and no "widgets" on your page then it won't be of much help.

    I personally do not give much importance to PR. My site (PR4) trounces many other sites (PR5-7) in SERPs. So its not just PR that determines the site's position...
     
    vlead, Oct 22, 2004 IP
  17. compar

    compar Peon

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    #17
    I'd like to see some proof for that statement. There has been more bad advice and false statements made in this thread than I've seen in a long time.

    How do you explain the #1 page for a search on "miserable failure". Certainly "miserable failure" doesn't show up anywhere on George Bush's official biography page. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&q=miserable+failure

    Or show me where the word "computer" appears on the Apple web site which comes up #2 for a search on computer. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&q=computer

    Your statement above just doesn't hold water.
     
    compar, Oct 22, 2004 IP
  18. vlead

    vlead Peon

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    #18
    :eek: sure it doesn't hold any water...

    I guess I have to do a lot of learning myself. Thanks a lot compar for clearing all this up.

    But I would like to know what is the importance of on-page elements then?
     
    vlead, Oct 22, 2004 IP
  19. disgust

    disgust Guest

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    #19
    well, what he stated certainly was oversimplified, but the basic jist of it still is helpful: use on-page optimization as well as anchor text optimization and link building, and it'll make things a lot easier than it would be if you ignore on-page elements all together.
     
    disgust, Oct 22, 2004 IP
  20. compar

    compar Peon

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    #20
    I certainly agree that you should try and use the KWs your optimizing for in the content of the page, but that isn't what vlead said. He made a bald face declaration that if Google can't find your KWs in the content that the anchor text will not work by itself. This just isn't true and I didn't think it should go unchallenged in a thread that was trying to teach a newbie about SEO.

    I also think that people who think that Google compares the anchor text of a link to content on the target page are wrong. If Google is doing any semantic or thematic evaluation I believe they are looking at the content of the page on which the link appears to see if the link is thematically related to the referring page.

    In other words if Vicious Summer -- where is she BTW? -- puts a link on her lingerie site to my stainless steel widget site then that link is probably only there to try and influence the search engines. It certainly isn't relative to lingerie and shouldn't be considered a "vote" for the information on my site.
     
    compar, Oct 22, 2004 IP