American Student goes to Palestine to help only to find out the truth

Unfortunately you still continue to deliberately misquote me. But your own words of hatred towards the Jews illustrates my point. With regard to shipping out the Jews, I'm sure Arab records were *extremely* accurate. But hey, let's get beyond that. What caused Jews to leave the region before this? Could it have been that for centuries they have been treated as second class citizens and for many Muslims this is just a way of life?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi

You know and admit this abuse of Jews has been occurring in Muslim lands for centuries. Let's use your own words that reflect your own shocking representation of the Muslim attitude towards Jews prior to 1948 and through today!!

So what you're trying to say is "the whole world treated the Jews like Sh## so the Muslims doing so is just the norm." By itself, that is revolting. You've got no excuse to say that because a good number of others (not the whole world) are thieves, adulterers and murderers that it's ok for you to just jump on the bandwagon and abuse Jews and their rights! Rather than apologize for the centuries of mistreatment, you just try to continue to justify it!

So why are Jews still treated as second class citizens today by the Muslims in the Middle East? Not because of 1948 or Israel, but because it's always been this way generally in Muslim society according to your words.

Thank you for also providing a HUGE laundry list of atrocities committed against Jews, many within the past 100 years. And what Bogart, myself and numerous others said above is that each of these countries has made efforts to change this horrific past. Russia has moved towards democracy. Germany has tried very hard to rid itself of its Nazi history. They've even made reparation payments to some Jews to try to return their land and assets looted. These countries are now democratic or striving towards fair treatment. But what have the Muslims done in the Middle East to deal with the abuse you speak of an blatantly unfair treatment of non-Muslims? There is no democracy and, furthermore, they've upped the ante in allowing Hamas and other terrorist groups to justify slaughtering innocent civilian Jews in an effort to destroy Israel entirely. You're fine in justifying the vast land stolen from the Jews in the Middle Eastern countries by Muslims but complain of your own displacement.

Once again, you continue to misquote me. I never said that. I said that the original exodus of Jews from the Middle East started long before 1948. Much of it was attrition thanks to your statement above - how are people supposed to feel in a land where for centuries, and still today, they are treated as second class citizens?

We haven't lied. We have never said that the Palestinians should be treated like dirt in the same way you've just said that Jews should because "everyone does it." We don't believe they should at all. But in solving this problem, Israel cannot do it alone. The only way we can find peace and try to find a way to make everyone happy is to have this entire horrific attitude you've put on display come to an end and - there must be equal treatment for all.

Jews must be equal citizens and feel the same safety in the vast Arab countries in the same way you want Palestinians to be equal citizens in Israel. Until that happens, the only place the Jews can find equal treatment is in Israel. The Palestinians don't have the same problem as the Jews in the rest of the Middle East - as they are Muslim, they have the land rights in Iran that the Jews don't have. And when you're boxed the Jews into Israel, there is bound to be a land problem. So how do we solve this? How can you demand from others that which you aren't yourself willing to give?

Educated people would call for equal treatment of all people throughout the Middle East. Your incredible post above illustrates the centuries-long hatred towards Jews and tolerance for them as only "second class citizens" that still exists too prominently within Muslim society. What is revolting is that you want first class Palestinian rights when you're barely willing to give even second class reciprocation. Thankfully, there are Muslims and Arabs who realize how disgraceful your behavior is and I won't let your fundamentalist Palestinian approach affect these relationships. But imagine how much more difficult that is to intellectualize if you're an Israeli and don't know whether a fundamentalist Palestinian sympathizer like ThraXed or an iggysick will blow your children to hell because they want what they want and continue to justify centuries of abuse without any concession? At some point you realize that the endless excuse about being refugees is really just an excuse for a murderous agenda of suicide bombing and not having to think and deal with the problem of providing equal rights to Jews and Israel throughout the region that has existed for centuries. And that's why not all Palestinians agree with iggysick and ThraXed but they need help in fighting this sickening mentality.

 

Of course you use the holocaust for sympathy - you continue to drill home a link between an oppressed people and a certain nazi when you know damn well the conflict isn't as simple as that. I've read through most pages of this 'debate' and its packed with accusations of anti-semetism and references to the holocaust every time a myth you post is debunked. It's your trump card.

Accept the fact that these sick bastards willing to strap themselves to bombs comes directly and indirectly as a result of Israeli aggression as well as a number of other factors. It can't be simplified to 'they want to wipe us out' and you fucking know it.

 

If it isn't as simple as them wanting to wipe out the Jews, then what is it?

Those who follow islam and mohamud correctly will hate the Jews and also other non-mohamud follows. They blow themselves up everywhere and not just in Israel and it has NOTHING to do with the land and everything to do with religion. The land is just another excuse, like a cartoon of the great unholy mohamud, it is simply another excuse to carry out the evil of killing those who don't agree with mohamud's book.

 

That is completely stupid.

Muslims strap themselves to bombs and murder people all over the world. Israel is only one victim of the poor social behavior caused by Islam.

Muslim suicide bombers attack other Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Atheists, Jews, and members of pretty much any other religion they come into contact with.

Do you blame a Jew every time a Muslim suicide bomber strikes in Islamabad?

You can't blame the Jews for the behavior of their Muslim neighbors. The Muslims must stand up and accept responsibility for their own actions.

 

None of us mentioned the Holocaust in the past several posts - everyone can read for themselves - you just did, iggysick did, and ThraXed did. It's tragic - you guys just repeat the same phrases 10,000 times as if doing so magically changes what is fact. I don't doubt you've been hearing the same nonsense since birth. It's always those damn Jews trumpeting the Holocaust card. Well, nobody said it except for you and iggysick explained to all of us his understanding of the Palestinian/Muslim perception and treatment of Jews for all too see:

iggysick replied my post about the Muslim treatment of Jews, NOT the Holocaust. And his response above is "sure us Muslims treated the Jews like refuse for centures before 1948... but why are you so mad only at us? Everyone treated the Jews like garbage before 1948 and look at the laundry list!"

Rather than apologize for the unwarranted pre-1948 abuse of Jews by Muslims, he JUSTIFIES it by saying everyone was kicking the crap out of the defenseless schoolboy so why point the finger only at him? Thus it's never wrong to continue to treat Jews like garbage - it's a long standing tradition. Amazing. Incredible! While too many countries did mistreat the Jews and other people, there were plenty of others, even Muslims, who didn't treat them like foul rubbish. And my question to all of you is how do we remove this mentality from the Muslim fundamentalists in the Middle East? How about in entire countries like Iran where the President himself is a vocal anti-semite and Holocaust denier?

Let's help you connect the dots here. iggysick's post admits that the Muslims treated the Jews as inferior, second class citizens before 1948. So then the "aggression" you complain about is after the Muslim mistreatment of Jews!

You scream endlessly about how the bombings are because of "Israeli aggression, aggression, aggression" since you don't care to hear anything else. You want to act like a selfish child who only wants what he wants and will throw a violent murderous tantrum if not satisfied. Had Jews not been treated and continue to be treated like second class dirt for centuries in the Middle East then this conflict would not have happened. Growing up and having peace means listening and trying to appreciate the totality of the circumstances and trying to find meaningful compromise for both sides and not just your own.

During the 1920s and 1930s the situation with the British created even greater Muslim animosity towards non-Muslims and this is what Bogart is referring to with regard to the importance of the Mufti. This led to the pot boiling even hotter with the fundamentalist Muslim animosity against the Jews growing even greater until the eventual and obvious war in 1948 where the Jews had nowhere else to go but fight for their own existence in the Middle East.

But you don't want to listen. You just keep repeating "Israeli aggression" 10,000 times in the hope that if you say it long enough, you and people around you will actually believe it and forget how this entire conflict even started. Your own fundamentalist friends seem to think it's a right to treat Jews like dirt. As such, until those Palestinians are ready to respect all human life and treat others as they wish to be treated, they can't expect any sympathy. As I said, it's about equal treatment of non-Muslims throughout the Middle East and the return of the rights and properties to those people too. It's not just a one way street.

Will Spencer put it best. The Jews and Israel are only the best known example of past and ongoing mistreatment by a significant faction of the Muslim community. Here's a book that explains some of the behavior we've just seen. There are many Muslims and Palestinians who don't believe like these angry fundamentalists. They hope to find ways for peace but, as you can see, there are far too many fundamentalists who don't even want to listen and find ways of having equal treatment for all and a love and respect for human life. As a result, they ruin it for everyone. Here's a book that makes for interesting reading or a gift and which neither iggysick, ThraXed or our new friend have touched with a ten foot pole.

http://www.amazon.com/Dhimmi-Jews-C...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206136131&sr=8-1

 

Thank you for proving my point.

Your incorrect in the saying that I only focus on the attrocities that the Israeli government partake in... I clearly stated in a previous post both sides are equally responsible for what's going on. YOUR the one that wants to put the blame solely on the palestinians and begin your mudslinging (anti-semite/jew hater/nazi/terrorist!) when someone disagrees with you.

 

You don't appear to have a point, or even the ability to keep track of whom you are talking to. Next time, when you quote someone, do it properly.

You are clearly making a shabby attempt at a straw man argument. As slinky pointed out, it's the anti-Jewish racists and Islamist e-jihadi's in this thread who continually bring up the Holocaust.

Furthermore, you completely avoided the main argument -- which is that you cannot blame Islamic suicide bombing -- a global phenomena -- on one tiny country in the Middle East.

The Muslims are solely responsible for their own actions, just the same as you or I are responsible for our own actions.

Do you blame the Ted Bundy's victims for being murdered? Do you blame John Allen Muhammad's victims for being murdered? If not, then why do you blame the vicitms of these Islamists murderers instead of blaming the guilty parties?

 

Yes, cause thats what I'm doing. I clearly stated in my previous post that Israel are responsible for every suicide bombing in the world.

I see you resort to personal attacks, yet again. In your next reply please feel free to make an irrelevent reference to the holocaust and a completly unjustified link between Palestine and Nazi Germany.

I'll not be back because this is a pointless debate.

 

What point? I didn't mention the Holocaust.

You're not disagreeing with me - you're putting words in our mouth. Once again, we didn't mention the Holocaust with regard to the Middle East conflict. You did. I didn't blame "Palestinians" for the conflict. My whole post was about the Muslim fundamentalists mistreatment of Jews as second class citizens for centuries, as admitted by iggysick. That is the root of the problem. The Jews still don't have full land rights unless they convert to being a Muslim, e.g. Iran. You've chosen to ignore that big piece of the problem.

Second, I have clearly differentiated between the militant fundamentalists, e.g. Hamas, and the group that lives relatively peacefully with the Jews in Israel and appreciates the totality of the circumstances. They are NOT the same mentality. They are NOT the same Palestinians who are lobbing rockets at innocent civilians or blowing up schoolchildren.

I'm not mudslinging at all. If there are isolated incidents where an Israeli may get out of hand, it certainly doesn't explain or justify all the suicide bombings on innocent civilians that occurs with regularity and, at times, out of nowhere. The original PLO's and Hamas' own charter explains this perfectly. It calls for the destruction of Israel, whether or not the Israeli government acts like a bunch of hamsters.

"The Dhimmi" will allow more here to understand far more than the surface "tit for tat" excuse that would wrap this up into a nice little Solomon-like package for you. But as you've just said again "feel free to make an irrelevant post about the Holocaust." Once again - it's only YOU making these irrelevant posts about the Holocaust and trying to make it as though we're the ones bringing it up. If you weren't fabricating this you'd show us. <sigh>