American POW, water boarding and .....

It was about the Taliban in your original post for this thread...

 

The point being, gworld, that if we start looking to the taliban for moral guidance we have lost our way, severely. But the real hilarity is the claim that the taliban may, even slightly, be likely to use waterboarding when they have a rich history of decapitation and throwing acid in children's faces.

If i was in Bergdahl's shoes id love some waterboarding, especially if it meant i wouldn't have my head cut off with a blunt butchers knife.

 

From what I heard, this Solider was actually AWOL before capture. I'm sure that the Army is quite focused on getting him back safely so he can be Court Marshaled. As for the media glorifying this deserter and making a hero out of him. What about those that have given their lives? What about those in the hospital recovering from injuries? What about the brave men and women currently serving? Why not give them their 15 minutes and respect?

 

As usual you are missing the point totally. The question is not to look to Taliban for moral guidance, the question is that former U.S. government has so morally bankrupted itself by using torture that it can not offer it's own moral standard as a guidance for Talibans or other nations.

 

You seem to be all over the place gworld. it seems in your haste to use this poor mans kidnapping for your own ends you entirely forgot to think of a coherent point to make. Go away, have a think about it and come back when you have a more lucid way of crow-baring in a comparison to the taliban. Because the idea that they might even be likely to use something as trivial as waterboarding is frankly insulting.

 

I personally don't consider waterboarding trivial, as I don't consider any method like this trivial. I guess I long ago burned out on myth-making, and I think we either toss the idea of international "norms" out the door, or behave in alignment with whatever myth of principled behavior we would wish to promulgate.

At the same time, I do agree with you, Stox, that the Taliban are filth, sons-of-bitches who must be met with cold steel. I've seen the images of women murdered before crowds of cheering men, by a ring of cowards with rifles who shot her on the ground like a dog. The films were seared in my mind, and can never leave.

I don't know....perhaps I'm just naive, a quixotic hopeful realpolitik can be paired to true principles of stately behavior. I'd hope not, but the longer I've lived, the more this earth quakes with blood and smoke, the more I despair our species will ever learn to simply drop the sword it learned to fashion, when it rose from the primordial muck.

 

Have you ever served in the army? You just sound like an angry frustrated little kid who is looking to find an object of hate for your frustration in life, be it a religious person, a taliban or anyone else that you think you can hate and be politically correct.
As a man of principal, I would not let my enemies to choose for me what is the norm and acceptable behavior. It is very easy to get angry and torture or kill a POW, but what separates true soldiers from an armed gang is the discipline that requires they always do the right thing, no matter how they feel at that moment.

If we can not pair the real politic and principles of stately behavior, then what are we fighting for? What will be the difference between us and Taliban with exception of superficial differences such as clothes and language?
War is never a good excuse for free for all behavior, that is the reason civilized countries long time ago, decided to declare some actions as war crimes.

 

No i haven't. I was fortunate enough to receive an education sufficient to make "bullet sponge for $5 an hour" a job description i didn't have to have.

Have you served in the army per chance?

you talk as if hating the taliban is irrational. Do you know what they would do to you and your children given half the chance? here's some advice; if someone wants to cut your head off and disfigure your children with acid you better start hating them. You better start hating them fervently and instantly. If not, feel free to explain to your children why daddy kind of sees where the man who wants to throw acid in their face is coming from and why we should be reasonable with him.

You have plastic principles gworld. They look good written down but would get you next to nowhere in reality. In reality you hate these scumbags as much as i do, but think it's a bit "right on man" to pretend you don't.

 

laws are laws evrtbody has to follow no matter now if one is american soldier or a person from it was actually considered cowardly to not stand in a line and take bullets from muskets to the faceordinary country.

 

gworld, are you ready for this?

The captured Taliban and Al Queda do not fall under the Geneva Convention. They do not meet the specifications of an enemy combatant as defined in the Conventions.

I have and currently serve in the military. I have been deployed 3 times, 2 to Iraq, 1 to Afghanistan. Not counting 9 months I did on Gitmo. I have captured detainees. I have transported detainees. I guarded detainees. I have killed people I was attempting to detain (self defense). Me personally, I don't like killing people. I hate it, it bugs me, I think everyone has a right to live. But, I will meet extreme violence with extreme violence if mine or anothers life is in jeopardy without hesitation nor a second thought about my deed. I would prefer to throw a person in flex cuffs and let the Iraqis try him for crimes. But, most of the Taliban, Al Queda, and other Iranian backed insurgents don't exactly give that opportunity too much.

Back to waterboarding. This is a tricky issue. IMO it is not in fact torture. I don't think it causes enough anguish, either physically, nor mentally, to someone like me that has been around the water enough and knows how to swim and has had water in my nose and mouth before. Now, to a person that grew up in a desert land locked country, that may be torture (mental). About torture in and of itself. I think there are specific times when full blown torture may be required. However, doing it for shits and giggles isn't a specific time I have in mind for that. And I mean few and far between. There are other methods that work so much better in getting accurate information. I'm sorry, but, environmental manipulation, such as controllin heat and AC, darkness, etc. is not torture in any way shape or form.

The American soldier that was captured, if what was said is true (which I don't believe) was a moron. But, the military is of the mindset that you don't leave anyone behind. Source: Soldiers Creed.

Sorry, the military is working quite hard on finding him. Unfortunately, it is harder than most people understand. I don't buy him just walking off a FOB. Sorry, that doesn't happen. You can't go out without your OTV/Kevelar, and a weapon with ammo. You must have at least 3 other soldiers with you if you are just walking off to look around the ACP, and you must have a mission number for a convoy. A lone soldier with a couple of Afghanis will not get off the FOB. There are guards all over the gates. There is A LOT more to this story than was released. HE is being treated ok right now because the Taliban are trying to use him as a bargaining chip. Unfortunately for him the US is of the mindset that we do not negotiate for terrorists. And, as hard as it is for some people to accept, he is just a number. One soldier amid a military well over one million. The Taliban are soon going to realize this. But, they probably know this already, and it was worth a shot in the dark. Pray and spray if you will. But it's not going to happen. If he is rescued, he will be in for a world of trouble after re-integration. So long as he remembers the Code of Conduct he'll be fine.