American contractors randomly shooting cars and killing civilians in Iraq

My first reaction was, yep, agreed. But then, I had to ask myself if I really meant this, and I'd have to say, no. For instance, my son's life is worth more than mine, if it came to it, as I'd lay my life down for him without a moment's hesitation to protect him - as would most fathers, obviously. I'd certainly take the life of someone seeking to harm me, or mine, without hesitation, if required, so I do place value on some lives more than others.

That said, with this issue, I don't ignore the loss of innocent Iraqi life and I don't find it less valuable than American lives. I grieve for both. In that vein,

That some don't value American lives is a worthy thing? He's gone, but what the hell does this mean, Thraxed, if you're lurking? As an American, my life isn't worthy?

 

Oh, I guess I should post a serious response...

Yes, the "liberators" should have better standards than the terrorists. And, by and large, they do! In ANY violent engagement, there will be those that commit heinous acts that violate most anyones standards of decency and compassion. Similar events took place during the US involvement in the Vietnam conflict. HOWEVER, the actions of an entire group should never be judged by the extreme actions of a FEW of their members.

Also, as TechEvangelist stated, America does try to prosecute and imprison those in their army or employ that they find committing such actions. Granted, the actions of the current administration give me little reason to believe any serious investigation or inquiries will be made into these matters, but it can and does happen.

Furthermore, this war has had one of the lowest casualty rates of any major engagement in the history of the world. This is good evidence that American forces in Iraq are *generally* trying their best to reduce and avoid unwarranted civilian deaths.

Look, as the saying goes, war is hell. In every single war that has ever occurred, civilians have died. Is it tragic? Yes. It's also unavoidable. And throughout the entire Iraq engagement, from air strikes to ground forces, America has done it's damnedest to limit the number of civilian casualties.

 

Ah, so it is a Scottish or Irish accent heard in the video.

 

Maybe. I listened to it several times and cannot make out the voices in the background. Even so, if it is an Al-Qaeda propaganda video (which it appears to be), the voices could have been recorded anywhere and dubbed in.

The real suspicious part is the Elvis tune that is clearly dubbed in. But for what purpose? A good propaganda video would have been more effective without the Elvis tune.

 

Do you like not knowing facts before posting?

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http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Aegis_Defence_Services

Looks like they did in fact do it, it was not a 'terrorist propaganda' video and it was rubber stamped to be acceptable.

 

I read the article. It doesn't tell me anything, confirm who made the video or give me any facts. Perhaps you should read it.

Regardless, nothing posted on the Internet is necessarily reliable info, especially when it comes from a "Progressive" news source.

 

It gave you a starting base to find out more info, I have sourced another for you above..

 

Nice attempt at discrediting something, reread what I posted would you?

There are hundreds of articles by simply doing a Google search, common dreams was simply the first to come up, they also only reprinted the article they DID NOT write the article.

I swear people who try to twist the source like this truly show their true colors.

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BTW the double post is on purpose, showing the lovely 'edit' after the fact to try to discredit the article and save face simply because of who reprinted the original.

 

GRIM, it still doesn't prove anything. No one has verified that the video is valid.

Check the name of this thread. American contractors randomly shooting cars and killing civilians in Iraq

That insinuates that Americans had something to do with it. This is a British contractor. Why didn't it read, "British defense contractors randomly shooting cars and killing civilians in Iraq." I personally get tired of the continual bias against Americans in half of the threads found here.

Also, I question this: "At the same time the US Army's Criminal Investigation Division launched its own, official investigation. Both investigations confirmed that all the circumstances, when seen in context, were within the approved and accepted Rules for the Use of Force, that no crime had been committed, and that there was no case to answer."

That leads me to believe that there is much more to this than the short clip that we saw. Perhaps these guys were under attack.

This reminds me of the Rodney King video. If you only saw the short clip that the news media repeatedly showed, you would believe that the LA police were beating an innocent "motorist". If you saw the entire video that was shown in court (I only saw it played one time), you would see that Rodney King clearly assaulted the officers after being stopped after a high-speed chase and he provoked the incident. That is why the cops were originally exonerated and then later railroaded with a civil rights violation.

Open your mind. Things are not always as they appear in the media... and things are rarely as they appear in the progressive media. Progressive = exteme left wing politics.

 

I am not taking a stance on the video one way or another, simply giving items to follow for those who actually want to learn.

You can keep putting 'progressive' as much as you want, YET AGAIN common dreams only REPRINTED the article, they were simply the first result on google, there are HUNDREDS, ACTUALLY THOUSANDS OF RESULTS, TAKE YOUR PICK!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Stoner

I guess this is progressive as well.

Or this.

http://www.channel4.com/more4/news/news-opinion-feature.jsp?id=214

Wow I find it amazing when simply trying to give some details for others to follow to research and stating from the get go that common dreams only reprinted the article someone would use that as a reason to dismiss the article all together.

This is actually old news, I've heard of it before, shocked others haven't, further shocked that someone would continue to claim it's 'terrorist propaganda' when someone tries to leave them crumbs to follow.

 

I am not sure we are all talking about the same thing. I think the handicapped or elderly are equally worthy and have the same right to life as anyone. I treat a janitor the same as I treat a judge or CEO. Most people have a family that loves them - even the retarded, or disabled. In that sense all lives are equally worthy.

Would I try to save my son's life by sacrificing my own - I would without hesitation. I do not think he is more worthy of life that I am - it is merely a sacrifice I would make because I would not want to live if it meant my son were to die. I would not want my wife and family to suffer, as they would, if my son were to die. I know they would suffer if I died, but the death of a child is especially painful to bear.

If I were faced with a sick dilemma of having my son killed or someone else's child. I would have to pick the other child. Not because I feel they are less worthy, but because of my own selfishness in wanting to protect my own family.

So, while I think we generally agree on the actions we would take, I would not be taking those actions because I deemed someone less worthy of life, but because of my selfishness to protect my own family.

Maybe it is a distinction without a difference, but in my mind, they are two separate issues.

 

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Just butting in to say I am enjoying the philosophical difference in views between browntwn and northpontaiki even though it appears they both have the same overall concept, just a bit different view on the 'why'

 

Hey, Brown -

I am certain we're on the same page. I probably should have said what was going on more clearly - I think I was just clarifying my philosophy, to ensure I wasn't mouthing a platitude - something I detest, whether it's me, or someone else. We're in agreement.

I think more the limitations of web talking, when facial nuance and a sip from a pint of beer helps to go, "oh, yeah...want another?" (I'm thinking Anchor Steam, Liberty Ale).

 

OMGGGG!

I made hundreds of dollars with the aid of "unreliable" information found on the internet! I should return the money?

Thraxed views of americans holds as much water as those of a kentucky fried chicken's [after it has been eaten]

 

I chalk it up to each of us trying to convey something with many levels of complexity in just a few words. I am pretty sure we have the same general thinking on this. Certainly my first statement made it sounds as though I would treat everyone the same, in all honesty I would not.

I do find it appalling that someone would tell a parent of a retarded child that their child was a lesser being and not worthy of the same consideration or right to life - or even hold that belief inside when they see a person they think is lacking.

To think how some dismissed handicapped people throughout history and how many great things have been lost to that type of ignorance. I mean, who here would dare say that Helen Keller was not a brilliant women as deserving of life as anyone else. That someone would simply declare her less worthy simply because she was deaf and blind was the thinking I was trying to take issue with.

I am the person who often says, in flippant manner, that some people are just defective units who should be returned to their maker. Here is one from today's news. To me, he is being judged on his actions not on some physical or mental aptitude. Hmm, I am confusing myself again.

... stepped away for about an hour and came back to my partially completed post...

Here is my thinking, we are all born equal and worthy of the same consideration. However, actions one takes in life can make it fair to add that to the equation when "judged" by others. Being disabled would, to me, not be something that would make someone a lesser person. Raping and murdering people would.

Edit to add:
Lastly, back to the topic.... The question posed by the OP, the idea that being of one nationality versus another would make someone worth more is absurd on its face. Nobody is worth more or less than any other person based on where they were born, or what country they live in, or what religion they chose to follow. That type of thinking is what prompted my post in the first place. I know I was very lucky in the crap shoot of life. I was born into a wonderful loving family when many are not, I was born into the best country in the world where I have the freedom to live as I please, and then I was born in sunny southern California - what I consider to be the best of the best! I recognize the luck that has been bestowed on me. I am no more worthy of those gifts than anyone else. At least I am thankful for it.

 

You are lucky, southern California is such a great place to be. For 3 weeks I stayed on Mission Beach, just me and my dog. Even in my room, I could hear the waves going in and out, it was very peaceful.

 

Thank you very much GRIM for sourcing this information. Thanks a lot.

 

When you hand 19 year old kids assault rifles after telling them all Muslims are terrorists, what do you think is going to happen?

 

From your point of view, yes.
Your son life worth more than your life. But your son will be disagree. Maybe he think that your life is worth more than his.

 

Do you tell your kid that no Muslims are terrorists?