All positives about directories! (warning: read only if you have time, 3K+ words)

I have withdrawn from posting in this section out of sheer disgust at the negativity. There has been lots of gloomy days, negative comments and DOOMS-DAY prediction about directories over the last few days.

It has pained me a lot to find that- rather than supporting each other in THIS TIME OF NEED - many of my colleagues have been trying to S***T out other directories. These INTERNAL BICKERINGs among us has given a VERY BAD IMPRESSION among the webmaster and SEO community. We get nothing to BS other directories- rather make a poor image for us.

Our internal skirmishes have also led many outsiders- who has nothing to do with directories-to destroy OUR WHOLE INDUSTRY.

But as I say in my thread title- ITS ALL ABOUT POSITIVES. I took their allegations seriously and tried to find answers to them.

THE RESULT - is a boring 3000K+ post on my BLOG.

I have discussed 6 main points that NAY-SAYERS point to us--and discussed them in details.

Misconception No 1. – Role of Directories

Misconception No. 2—Traffic To/From Directories

Mosconception No. 3. Quality Directories – Information Providers Vs. Empty Categories:

Misconception no. 4.

General Directories VS. Niche Directories/Paid Directories Vs. Free Directories

Misconception No. 5. Directories Sell PR

Misconception No. 6 Directory listings devalued or Directories banned.

While I appreciate CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM on what I wrote--both here and on my blog- PLEASE DO SO ONLY AFTER YOU READ THE FULL POST WORD BY WORD. Blind comments without reading the post are NOT WELCOME.

Please read HERE

 

jhnrang ... i have read your posting and find that you are really not understanding what is really going on in the directory realm. You are taking a defensive position and not addressing the real problems ... take some time and read this:

Directory Owners … Incredibly Bright People, Doing Incredibly Stupid things!

good luck!

 

Thank you for going through the pain.
Yes I read that blogpost you referred to when it was published some months back.

But I have gone through it again and now thinking - WHO IS NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT?

Is it me who is not understanding-- or is it you who is not understanding the real problems facing our industry.

I made my post to answer to exactly exactly those types of posts/allegations/accusations.

Example: - What comprises the “web directory food chain”?

These points on that post were mistaken.

It is very dificult to really understand the pulse of directories from outside. As I mentioned- in point 1 & 2 -- directories are all about assisting SEs --not to be mini SEs themshelves. Uncoverthenet tried to break that ground and see what happened! Directories receive traffic from SEs and those visitors hardly know directories. Business for directories come mainly from fellow webmasters and SEOs.

I am of-course defensive because I am a directory owner. But it does not mean that I am blind to the problems. I spend most of my 12-15 hrs/day online time on analyzing directories.

Come-on man-- how many normal internet surfers would know the existence of web directories. They are for SEO purpose only as their roles have changed over time.

I have been using the net since 1997 --never heard of DMOZ till Dec.-2006 I always used Altavista then.

 

Thanks Mikey.
I tried to be brutally honest with the post.
Don't worry - my directory too is under Google. Hopefully - It would come back after my PR8 link expires o 28th. The main problem is with that link as it has helped me rock serps for terms even I don't know.
I can't request to remove that link as it was bought through a third party.
From now on- F***k with PR and SERPs. I'll try to concentrate on only quality listings.

I am not sure about all Brits girls being too S***Y- (isn't the main point of my post?)
The first girl I got serious with was a Brits who came to visit the place where I stayed at that time. We got very close- but all I got from her were smooches -and nothing else.

 

what makes you say that ?

 

jhnrang ... you are obviously too immersed in your train of thought to really comprehend the REAL true purpose of directories. You, as many others, are stuck with a business model that does not have any long term benefits and are purely short term.

If you are as seasoned as you say you are the first thing that should have popped in your head is that link pages and directories were well in existence before many if not all of the SEs were even born. These directories were put together by ordinary toms dicks and harrys who wanted to link to quality resources for their readers NOT FOR HELPING SEs or SEOs!!!

You should also remember that Yahoo's humble beginning were that of a directory and then slowly started adding other services!! Is it a coincidence that Yahoo is the number one trafficked site? Is it a coincidence that it has been able to maintain that top spot for so many years? NO! They understand value and they quickly caught on that they needed to offer more products/services in order to keep eyeballs.

On the other side of the spectrum you have ODP/DMOZ ... they continue to provide the same directory building service and look what is happening to them? They are not going anywhere except down.

So I'll let you go on your merry way and believe what you want to believe but just remember one thing:

In order to create value with your directory, avoid crisis and monetize its potential - involves a significant paradigm shift. It also involves understanding the critical elements of the “web directory food chain”, and how to provide value to each of those elements while incorporating a viable and sound business model that supports each element.


take care ... cheers

 

Always love to exchange views.
Yes -you are right- links-pages existed even before SEs. But as I mentioned on my post --they were gud-ol-days - when SEO was not born - and search engines were not a major factors. I also mentioned the type of websites people/companies built in those days.
But - today everything has changed. And one has to change with time. Those big SEs like Ask/Altavista could not change with time and Google pushed them into oblivion. Thats nature. Everything changes with passage of time.

The business model you are talking about - is idealistic- not proper business model. There are many people who have niche directories - please find some time and ask them how they are doing with them.
IMHO- you model is perfect in an ideal world- where there would be no rat race for SERPs, 75% people who has access to internet are aware of the existence of directories and complete abolition of search engines.

Please be honest- do you ever look for website information in directories? Forget our liliput directories-
do you visit Yahoo or DMOZ to find it or just type in on SEs? I bet -you look them in SEs.

So?????

I believe your model is atleast 5 years ahead of time. But hey- no worries-

I have got 2 nice domains for 2 more directories- one only business, the other more specific- real-estate. I am not really in rush to make them- but I'll surely make them

IMHO- it is not how to provide value to visitors that matters (in pure business sense) --it is the value you can offer to SE bots, SEOs and webmasters that matters to make profit out of a directory.

But people always have different opinions, different thought process. So best of luck with your model.

Addition:
This forum thread suggests how the clientale look upon on the market and they submit to directories for SE purpose - not direct traffic. Webmasters & SEOs pay the review fee to a directory not to improve that directory's profile, but to improve their own link-popularity for SERPs. Thats the HARD TRUTH.

 

jhnrang ... a pleasure conversing with you as well.

Striking a balance is critical in business, but when you ask a business person what goals they want from their website, they rarely if ever answer "I want a PR6 for my site". They will usually tell you they want qualified traffic, repeat visitors and increased conversions ... my model sets looks at the entire food chain and ensure everybody in that food chain gets value out of it.

cheers

 

How can one achieve PR6 by submitting only in directories
I wonder if you really read my post!

Directories do not offer much PR value in way of their listings. The example I game on my blogpost is- I paid for review to wowdirectory because it is a trusted-old-high quality directory. My site is listed on a page with PR of N/A ( Not Available) . How much PR juice I get?

Most directories list sites on PR2/3/ pages. There are hardly few directories where you get PR4/5 listings -- and PR6 directory page is like water in desert.

As far as I understand PR metric- I think that I could never achieve PR6 on my site even if I submit to all the directories available online including Yahoo & DMOZ.

About the second bold point- I would like you to answer my Q about where do you look for a particular website information!
Is it on Yahoo/DMOZ or SEs? So that poit to is neutralized.

So why do people pay review fee to get listed in directories?

Because-
1. They are the easiest and quickest way to get some important backlinks to get a new site indexed quickly.

2. Competitors hardly give you links.

3. The cumulative link value you get from those directories help your site in SERP.

4. Directory links are mostly permanent. The long-term benefit is good enough.


I would like to re-request you to read my article again without pre-judice and give a serious thought on points I raised.


Here is one more example what brings in the submissions to directories-long-term SERPs benefit and SERPs=Traffic.

http://sphinn.com/story/5310

 

Oh I've read your post believe me and I certainly don't want to read it again. Maybe you should read mine once an hour for the next 17 years or until it sinks in.?

I can find you all sorts of high PR directories that people continuously overlook. I know of several directories with PR7s/8s for the front page and PR5s/6s for internal pages. I'm certain that a few well place links in some PR rich and quality directories should yield some nice PR. Personally I really don't care about PR as most business owners.

Important and quality backlinks can be achieved in many other ways. eg: submitting an article, making a post on a forum, leaving a comment in blog etc. You don't need to pay to list in a directory.

Yah but some will. ... But why worry about competitors when all you have to do is just concentrate on your business partners and loyal customers. I'm sure they'll give you all sorts of relevant free links as well.

Unless they have been identified as a paid link provider where then their link value is nullified. Its actually better to go for free natural and organic link growth with a little help from other business partners and loyal customers.

Permanent at a monthly fee? heheeh Unfortunately permanent is also relative to the life of the site. There is also significant abandonments and non renewals of directories. People get tired of them and just never renew them. Its going to get worse now as google start to crack down a little more.

Take care I really can't sit here all night and argue with you regarding the obvious.

cheers

 

I don't think either of you is right or wrong, you are simply talking about different topics within the same industry.

I think LaCabra correctly states that the business model of 99% of new directories is fatally flawed, and I would agree.

jhnrang you are specifically talking about some of the current challenges the industry faces and what they mean and how to deal with them.

So again, you guys are just talking about completely different sides of the same coin.


LaCabra I was pleased to read your assessment of the industry and it closely echoes my feelings.

I recently started a network of niche portals with the focus on offering some of the things you touched on. Here is my example Music Portal

I think you will see a lot more of this trend within the next 24 months and it is always the early ones that have and sometimes maintain the advantage, so now is a good time to get started.

Good bit of logic and explained very well.

 

I read your post few times --but enough is enough. I do not have courage to experiment with a futuristic vision in this ever changing dynamic world.

I'll be highly oblized to you if you kindly PM me with those directories. As per as I am concerned --there are only handful PR8 directories- -Yahoo/DMOZ/STPT/LII. I don't care about STPT & DMOZ. LII is impossible to get listed. Yahoo is GOOD.

Some PR7 directories I know of are -botw/business.com/excellentguide/gogreece/clush . Options are limited for me.

I would really love to know all those directories that I do not know. But I must get listed on PR6/7 pages.

I seriously doubt you read my article and understood it On my post- I wrote very clearly that I achieved PR6 with 99.99% non-paid links. Have you ever thought how I got those links?

Excuse me pls-- who is charging you monthly fee? There are hardly handful of directories that charge yearly fee. Monthly fee--never heard of!

Exactly- I am talking about current challenges and how to deal with them.
I have never said anything against niche directories.
Rather my view has been-- whether Niche or General/Paid or Free -it does not matter at all. What matters is the over-all quality of the individual site.

 

@jhnrang ... hunting for PR hey? Okay ... I'll give you one because I can tell that if I let these out of the bag the whole gang of PR hunters will be all over this ! Simply search through some of my past posts (may 1 to 2 years old) and you will see one site that is FREE to submit to that very high PR on the front page and high in the internal pages.

@jg123 thanks for the feedback! Its great to see you are moving in the right direction with your music site. You will see how as you ad more and more services you will get more and more traffic and conversions.

take care

 

Not hunting for PR. But if a directory has PR6/7 innerpage - I would really like to have my sites listed on them. They must be of highest quality.

The one you gave me is old- I have been a client there for long. Would like to know more.

 

hehehe ... old ? Domain age is actually good for you!! You should actually be sharing some of these high PR site you have with others so them can also benefit instead of asking for more!

 

Of course- it seems the older a site is- the higher G trust them.

Besides, I reckon most directory owners are good link-builder as more than anything else- a directory need good links so that it can help other sites.