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Abortion, Good- Bad

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by diarmuid, May 30, 2007.

  1. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #101
    :
    I have sex because I enjoy it and not because I want to get someone pregnant. Do you also turn off the lights and pull down your pants only half way under the cover while she pulls up her night dress when you are having sex? In what time period do you live, 100 AD? :rolleyes: :D

    It might be a surprising fact for Christians but sex is not a disgusting act that you only have to do it for reproduction, it is quite enjoyable activity. ;)SEMrush
     
    gworld, May 31, 2007 IP
    SEMrush
  2. livingearth

    livingearth Well-Known Member

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    #102
    You have got to be kidding me!
    First of all what makes you feel that a fetus cannot feel pain? Many things in our world go far beyond present medical knowledge.
    I myself was the father of an unborn child. The mother at the time we conceived wanted to have my child. When we found out she was expecting we were overjoyed. Enter parental conflicts and influences everything went haywire. Before I knew it she was being pressured by her family to abort the child. Phrases like "It's not a baby yet." and "they can't feel pain at this stage" were the popular phrases. Before I knew what was going on "Cindy" was shuffling doctors appointments sending me one place while she was another. I had absolutely no rights even though the child was my own blood. She needless to say aborted the child unbeknownst to me. Rigel would be 12 years old now. Had he had a chance to live. My wounds have never healed. Relationships are difficult for me now. The mother can't even look at me now and reacts to even a casual passing in an overtly painful way as though I had done something wrong. I can only assume that my mere existence is a powerful reminder of the past. ( She did not believe in abortion supposedly ).
    A fetus is a human being. I know that carrying a child is an inconvenience. But it is a responsibility. Just like caring for our parents when they lose the ability to care for themselves. It may be inconvenient but it is necessary. And it divides the good and responsible from the selfish and irresponsible.
     
    livingearth, May 31, 2007 IP
    debunked likes this.
  3. diarmuid

    diarmuid Peon

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    #103
    Well, mainly... science...

    Namely the fact that the foundations of theCNS (centeral Nervous System) are not established until day 26. The human body also only feels pain when nervous impulses are transmitted to the brain. Considering that a embryo only actually gets electrical brainwave activity at day 45, until that point, I dont quite now how a baby would feel pain... maybe through its errr... nose?

    I had heard that as well, maybe everyone else lives travelling through time, and only just heard about this "sex"...
     
    diarmuid, May 31, 2007 IP
  4. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #104
    I am not trying to be cruel and that is the reason I don't post a detailed response but let's say that there are many issues in your post that has got nothing to do with if abortion is right or not. You should take a closer look to underlying problems instead of blaming abortion.
     
    gworld, May 31, 2007 IP
  5. livingearth

    livingearth Well-Known Member

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    #105
    Clearly it is a matter of your lack of "standards". Babies are human. Therefore killing one in the form of a fetus or embryo is murder. Redefining a few words definitions or having your "own personal truth" is just denial and rationalization.


    The old "It's my body" excuse does not hold water either...
    If the woman has the child. Can the man turn around and say its my body and I don't want to work and support the child because its an inconvenience and it makes me tired? No
     
    livingearth, May 31, 2007 IP
  6. Toopac

    Toopac Peon

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    #106
    You fail to see the real purpose of sex in the world, not just the purpose in your little mind;)
     
    Toopac, May 31, 2007 IP
  7. diarmuid

    diarmuid Peon

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    #107
    Sorry, if my definitions aren't good enough for you, then I suggest you write your own dictionary, the one used by the english speaking world appears not to be good enough for you, as that is where all of my definitions have come from. Furthermore, who are you to judge my standards, are you any more of a person than I am? Are you better because you believe in pro-life? Are you just generally a higher person than I am? Maybe I should bow down to you, then again maybe not. As to whether a baby is a human, that could be down to your over-high standards.

    No, its true he can't, however if he had got into a decent relationship in the first place, his partner might have valued his views enough to ask him whether he wanted to have the child, and maybe if he had an abortion, he wouldn't have been faced with this situation.
    Then, it is the woman's body who bears the child, not the man's so maybe it would be a bit weird if he said "It's my body" because that would be like slavery, and that is also after the birth, because for it to be a child, it would at least have to be born.
     
    diarmuid, May 31, 2007 IP
  8. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #108
    In this case a sterile men or women who can not have a child, will not have any right to have sex. Great "Republican" world, not only take away the right of women to decide over their own body but government should also decide who can or can not have sex. :rolleyes:

    If the only purpose of sex was for reproduction, then it would be no need for condom in the world, would it? What will be the next plan, making condoms illegal? :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, May 31, 2007 IP
  9. diarmuid

    diarmuid Peon

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    #109
    Sex soley for reproduction, is purely the idea in your little mind, probably which has been either directly or indirectly linked to the catholic church. The same church that bans contraception, in order to put people in a place where they need abortions. I personally agree, it is a much better bet, to have sex with your choir boy, as the catholic church has a reputation for (thats the fault of the media not me) than have a normal healthy recreational sexaul relationship with someone of your own age.
     
    diarmuid, May 31, 2007 IP
  10. livingearth

    livingearth Well-Known Member

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    #110
    It appears that many feel that an individuals inconvenience is of greater importance than the right of a life to exist. Just drive right on by an accident because you are late for work. Or maybe run when the muggers are beating robbing an old lady. I guess standards are what makes the man.

    Yes I agree there are underlying problems. The woman if she brings an unwanted child to term will have issues to deal with. But these are small in comparison to a human life.
     
    livingearth, May 31, 2007 IP
  11. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #111
    Not if it is a man with crazy ideas that will get a hold on the rest of her life through the child. Who can decide that a life of unborn child is more important than a life of living and thinking woman?
     
    gworld, May 31, 2007 IP
  12. diarmuid

    diarmuid Peon

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    #112
    The right of the woman to have a life which is exists and is fruitful, of course doesn't exist because she is a woman.
    I don't really see a) who you are to judge people as men, b) how abortion is related to whether someone will help an old lady, or someone in an accident...
    Considering when abortion was earlier linked to a car accident, we were informed that was laughable, seems weird that it is ok the other way around.
     
    diarmuid, May 31, 2007 IP
  13. Toopac

    Toopac Peon

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    #113
    I'm atheist.

    All through this thread i've basically heard:

    It's ok to open your legs & have sex with whom ever you want, as much as you please, without worrying about any responsibility of any pregnancy that occurs, as a pregnancy is completely optional, as no women has to put up with a pregnancy which they initiated as this would be unfair & if she had to take responsibility for her actions this would be forcing her into something that she had no idea could of happened & for which she had no control over.

    However what i want to know is does this work for men too?

    Could i screw around with as many ladies as i like & possibly get them all pregnant, then when a pregnancy occurs i say "having a baby is optional i'm pro-choice, i don't want one nor do i want to take responsibility for one. I will respect you right as a women to have the kid or not though", & surely regardless of whether she keeps the kid or not, i have the right not to have a baby forced upon me or any responsibilities that come with it in any way shape or form, if i choose not, as i'm pro-choice.
     
    Toopac, May 31, 2007 IP
  14. diarmuid

    diarmuid Peon

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    #114
    Thats nice, however it was in general the catholic church who started preaching that sex was bad except for reproduction, and against contraception, and against abortions, so many of the views people have on these issues naturally stem, often (as I said earlier) indirectly from the catholic church
    No, thats not really what has been said in the thread, what has been said, is that along with running water, people started to have sex for enjoyment. This means that they use contraception and attempt to enjoy life, this allows them to have what is normally safe sex, however it means that they also run the risk of accidentally concieving and this means that they might have been attempting to have sex in a safe way and yet due to circumstances outside their control, their safety net failed, but then maybe it does say what you said, in that case, are we both talking about the same thread?
    Abortion, as a subject isn't really in relation to the men. Regardless of whether or not that is unfair, which it is, it doesn't bear that great a relation on the actual subject of abortion; unless you want to go for, why should they have a choice when I can't, which seems rather childish in my opinion.
     
    diarmuid, May 31, 2007 IP
  15. livingearth

    livingearth Well-Known Member

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    #115
    Do not think that I see a woman as having any less rights than a man. They are equals in all ways. But the baby( fetus/embryo ) has rights too...
    I live to protect the helpless. If you were in danger of being robbed or murdered, I would not hesitate to do something. What I never know, but my spirit would move me and before I realized I will have done something. I do not turn my back or coward when life calls for action. Similarly I would act on behalf of anyone even an unborn child. Speaking of definitions. What is the definition of the word "selfish". It seems to be the underlying principle here. Some people live for themselves. Some people live for all.
     
    livingearth, May 31, 2007 IP
  16. Toopac

    Toopac Peon

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    #116
    I don't do "catholic church" i do common sense;)

    What about the right of everyone to have choices?

    I'm not saying men should have a say in abortions, but surely as your pro-choice & you don't like forcing people into things, if i expressed my wishes to a pregnant lady that i did not want the child surely if she keeps it (which is her choice/her right) i can't be forced to be responsible for it?

    This thread is about pro-choice/pro-you already made a choice, so i believe having you opinion on the above would be interesting.
     
    Toopac, May 31, 2007 IP
  17. diarmuid

    diarmuid Peon

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    #117
    I (as a guy) whole heartedly agree, that its not really fair for guys to be forced into having to pay for a child they didn't really want, (fortunatley I'm never going to have to worry about that;)) that is of-course a totally different issue to abortion, but I do agree it is generally anti-male.
     
    diarmuid, May 31, 2007 IP
  18. livingearth

    livingearth Well-Known Member

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    #118
    I agree completely to this, But if a child is concieved they both have a responsibility to see that life through to fruition..

    Yes it is a subject that relates to the man. Though the woman carries the child. The child is just as much the man's child as the woman's. The man is equally responsible for the protection and best interests of the child as the woman. The child is a part of the man as the man is a part of the child. I mean this as physically, emotionally and spiritually.
     
    livingearth, May 31, 2007 IP
  19. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #119
    It is the women who carries the fetus in her body and that is all that matters. her right to decide over her own body and life but in a lot of cases, the women will have the abortion for exactly the reason that you mentioned; it is more about abortion of the man from her life than abortion of the fetus.
     
    gworld, May 31, 2007 IP
  20. diarmuid

    diarmuid Peon

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    #120
    Ok, I admit on that point you are right, and maybe I phrased what I said wrongly. It is a subject that relates to the man, however in the society in which we live, it is unfortunatley not the actual choice of the man. There have been several legal precedents set where it has basically been said in court that it is not the mans choice. Which I (as I guy) think is wrong, and yet I can see the other side of the coin, where it is a fair point that it is often (at the risk of being stereotypical) the women who gets left behind with the child.
     
    diarmuid, May 31, 2007 IP