Yeah, I should never go to the middle east. If I did, I would organize all the women into demonstrations where we would burn our burqas and demand immediate equal rights. They would probably lock me in jail, and throw away the key.
Nay, women are not forced to wear burquas, they wear it coz then have always done so, for centuries. It gives a feeling of security and anonymity, IMO. Since I am a man, I wouldn't really know. But thats what I've heard and understood.
Thank you Rebecca for your warm feelings towards women in the Middle East, but I would like to comment about the image you hold about "all" women since you used "all", of course, there are some who are being forced to wear Burqo, or Hijab, and there are oppressed women in the Middle East, like there is oppressed women everywhere, but each country should be treated separately here because Middle East is not one country, it is many countries, for example lets take Iraq, prior to the Gulf war in 1991, we should try as much we can to be accurate in delivering information, because, I believe the wrong images the majority in West have about Middle East was used to gain their support for the Iraq war which had bad effect on women their and their achievements, Prior to Gulf war in 1991, and according to human rights watch "Iraqi women and girls have enjoyed relatively more rights than many of their counterparts in the Middle East" here are some quotes and below you will find the link to the full report: http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/wrd/iraq-women.htm to those who are not familiar with CEDAW, you can read the definition on UN site: http://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/cedaw/index.html and here is a part of the introduction: The U.S. Has Failed To Ratify CEDAW for More than 20 Years By the way Ms. Naela Mohamed Gabr from Egypt ( Mid East, Arab, Muslim country ) is one of the Vice-Chairpersons. So, i think women in Middle East are actually active on a high level and not waiting right now for somebody to show them how to demonstrate and burn borqo. now how are women situation in Iraq after they been westernized or "liberated" by the west invasion: sadly.. you can read it all here: http://hrw.org/reports/2003/iraq0703/ so the point I meant by showing this example, the west mostly hold a negative image about Middle East that is not always true, in fact its exaggerated very much in some cases, you mentioned in other post the Saudi rape victim, I can mention the 9 Rapists who raped a 10 year girl in Australia and been freed, did either of us solve a problem? or the American father who killed his daughter and said "God told him to do so", and go even further and say Christianity encourage them to do so like when God told bush to invade Iraq...etc I do not know, and I might be wrong but I feel from what I read on forums about Mid East by westerns that the accent always is like "hay, I m better than you", I do not understand why they feel the need to say speak in such accent, I do not believe we are in a civilization clash, and I support real calm discussion, and I accept criticism if it meant to be constructive. and again that does not mean that all women in all Mid East countries enjoy the same rights, its not good to generalize always, whether its good or bad, not all are bad, not all are good. ok, I apologize for the lengthy post, even though its not all I wanted to say this topic, but I think I tried to make a point that I hope it will reach.
Hi Imad, Don't apoligize for the lengthy post, it was very interesting. It is nice to get a viewpoint from someone in Egypt. In my post where I was listing why western culture is better for women, I did point out all countries were different so it is hard to generalize. That was a serious post, and I still stand behind that. Although, in the last post when I was talking about demonstrating, I used "all" because it wasn't really a serious post. I was just being sarcastic. I don't think I would go to the Middle East and organize women for a demonstration. First of all, in some countries they do not hold Americans in high regard so they probably don't care what I think anyway. Secondly, the women would be in danger because in some countries they beat and imprison women for holding peaceful demonstrations. The country I am thinking of is Iran. In Iran, women tried to hold a peaceful demonstration in which they just asked for the same basic rights that men enjoy. In return, the police got rid of the journalists, beat the women with batons, and arrested them. You can read about it here and here. Anyway, what is it like for women in Egypt? Do they have equal rights under the law? Can they vote? Can they own property? Can they pursue higher education? What is the dress code for women? Can they hold any types of jobs? I am really curious, I don't know much about Egypt.
Iraq in 1991 had better womans rights than America in 2008. Wow, sure says alot! . I think it is sickening how woman earn on average 40% less than men in western countries.
Thats a fantastic post. Personally I dont like religion as it is generally used as a form of social control but all religion have a few fragments of truth in all the bull. Out of all the muslim religions I think the Sufis have the most truth, they are the esoterics of the muslim world and have always been at the forefront of art, music, science and spiritualit in a heavily dogmatic social group. Personally I think Muhammed saw 'God/Bob, etc' as he thought it should be, not as it truely is. Same as most prophets, etc.
Good point. There is a pressure of media. It is another question and topic who or which power controlling those media
Hi Rebecca, the answer is yes for the first 4 questions, about the dress code, there is none, usually a woman there can wear whatever she wants, and yes for your other question, I was a guest on that great country, and now I m back home, in some places, specially far from cities, traditions have its effects sometimes on women and the dress code, like in everywhere there are oppressed women but I think this is mostly because of ignorance.
I haven't heard such good things about how men treat women in Egypt. It could have been isolated incidents, and I don't want to spread disfino, but it's certainly worth further research.
Hi Guerilla, Have I told you today that I think you are wonderful? I checked and Google doesn't think Egyptian women have it so good either. There were many examples, and here is one: Egypt is not the worst place for women though, I think they are making advances. I believe Afghanistan would probably get my vote for the #1 worst place for a woman to be. What do you think would be the worst place to live?
Guerilla is a great source of knowledge to depend on in this forum and he is much willing to share with us and more
In the USA, One out of every six American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime. Source: Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network On average, more than three women a day are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends in the United States. Source: Family Violence Prevention Fund In the 39% of attacks reported to police, there is only a 16.3% chance the rapist will end up in prison. Source: Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network Every nine seconds a woman is beaten in the United States. Source: American Institute on Domestic Violence 2001 In 2003, the median income of full-time, year round U.S. workers was $41,520 for men and $31,663 for women. Source: U.S. Census Bureau - Income in the United States: 2003 http://www.ywca.org/site/pp.asp?c=djISI6PIKpG&b=295714 Just for comparison, for people who want to see both sides.
Are we still in this thread A Message to Non-Muslims from a Muslim ? How about going back to the thread proper, I think we have digress enough. It is not very fair to the OP who is discussing something else.
So it is ok for the thread to go off topic when it is speaking about Womens rights in the middle east, but as soon as the USA is rightly critisized you complain. C'mon.
I am just giving you a friendly reminder, you have all rights to post what you want subjected of course to the mods approval should they see any reasons to intervene.
Thank you! This sounds pretty consistent to what I have heard. Men don't seem to have a lot of respect for their wives as equals. I spend a lot of time trying to learn about good places, so I'm on the other end of the global spectrum. Personally, I'm obviously about personal freedom, a country that doesn't fight or get into wars, has sound money and still has a cultural identity. Switzerland is probably closest.