Y'all inspired this post and I thought I'd share: http://allfreelancewriting.com/2010...ive-writers-market-yourself-not-your-country/
Outstanding! However, I'd request you to leave the blog, unmoderated. Let those who want to make acridic comments do so, to their heart's contents. Arghhh! The online dictionary does not even recognize acridic and unmoderated? These forums should integrate a native English dictionary. )
I suspect many of the "misguided" webmasters asking for native speakers are doing so in the hopes of not receiving a horribly spun or word-for-word copied piece. There are many here, including myself, who have been presented with stolen works and gibberish claimed to be original work. Like it or not, many of the folks doing that are from the same part of the world and their native tongue is not English. The sad part is many of these so-called writers are capable of writing well, they just choose to take short cuts.
I'm not arguing that point. Yes, there are plenty of unprofessional people out there, and more might be from one country than another. My point in the post was that there are plenty of professionals who can do a better job than you'd expect. By completely eliminating them from the competition, you might be doing yourself a disservice. I sincerely suggested that professional writers from any country, with any language background, who can do the job you're seeking ignore the Native Speaker request. Why? Because most (I can't speak for you, of course) webmasters don't really want a native speaker - they want a professional. "Native speaker" is just the term that seems to signify that - at least around this community. If you're a professional writer and can take care of business, let clients know. If you received an email that showed you how qualified a person was for the job at hand, an email that shared his background and expertise, and was backed up with a verifiable internet presence including a website, blogs, articles and the like - would you dismiss him out of hand because his IP address said Pakistan or India or the Philippines? Perhaps webmasters and writers both should take this another step - stop buying from threads and empty promises, but use those threads as a guide to the writers who are proud enough of their name to establish a brand around that and their work. That wouldn't work every time, but if a writer cared enough about his career, he'd back it up with evidence of success as part of his marketing plan. For the doubting webmasters, I'd encourage you to find that evidence - finding a writer with an established brand also gives you more security if you are scammed since a writer is less likely to disappear if he's been around awhile, has a website or current blog and is active in the online community. Once you've got a real brand, you have to protect it. That's true of all writers - native speakers or not.
I agree. But is it really that big of a problem? However, when they cannot write as well as they should in our language.... Along with Carol Tice's blog, I also like reading Jennifer Mattern's blog every now and then. But most of that submitted article from Rebecca Garland was not done well at all. Although I can see where she is coming from, but still.... She wrote: Yeah, so???.... "...the majority of webmasters making the requests are not native speakers themselves." So? Let's say I know most of the Indian language. If I were to go on a trip to India, and I wanted to write an article for, say, a local paper while there, I would certainly would rather have an Indian do it. Hell, I don't even know if the word "Indian" is the right term to use! See? The fact of the matter is, most "writers" who reply to a thread on "looking for a writer" writes like this: i can do this ill send pm I mean, what the hell? Of course not all are like that. I have met true writers from other countries. I have a friend ("penpal," sort of speak) from India who can probably write better than me. heh heh. But, again, the fact of the matter is that they are far and in between. She wrote: I'm not trying to be mean here, I'm really not, but I don't feel sorry for them. If they can't even write to begin with, AND, they know it but they still want to hire themselves out, well, that is just crazy shit. It's like hiring a website programmer to do changes to my site, and he screws it up. I'd pick his ass up from that chair and throw him out of my house. I'm sorry, but you do not say you can do something knowing full well that you can't. That shit pisses me off, which is why sometimes I come down hard on some of these lame-ass posters who reply to threads on the subject of looking for a writer. She wrote: It is??? When somebody "requires" something, it usually means just that. When I require something, it does mean just that. ... I require you to be able to actually stand behind what you advertise yourself as. She wrote: I agree, but if they know how to write English quite well, they do not need to do this anyway. ... And I think it is a pretty safe bet that just about all of them do not anyway. I know of several who don't even bring it up. They just do like everybody else: They create an about-me site, and send out queries. And...they get jobs. With all this said and done, is this really a problem? Did this article really need to be published, or is this just a case of her overreacting? Am I missing something here??? I'm not trying to be rude here, but, think about it.
I've been doing the rounds of this forum for nearly two years. During this period I've learnt a lot from friendly folks like you. I've also received emails from quite a number of you regarding my content writing services. Initially, I charged $5 per 500 words article. Though my rates were not displayed anywhere in this forum, webmasters, interested in my writing services and being notified about my tariffs via PM, requested me to lower down my rates to something in the range of $2-$3 if I was interested in doing their jobs. Just one of them was from a third world country. So whom do you blame in such a scenario? The good news is that, a few of them appreciated my work and they still do. They pay me $10 per 500 words rewrite and $20 for an original. They do not mind paying $35 per 500 words multi-nested spins. If the writers are to be blamed for the current scenario, so are those who are hiring them at a pittance. P.S.: As far as qualified writers, knowledgeable webmasters, and 5-star websites are concerned... make a request and I shall provide you with links to many such sites displaying terrible content. Copying and pasting the text matter of such sites in programs like `MS Word' shall not help. This program does not trap many grammatical mistakes like `passive phrases,' `split infinitives,' `end of sentence proposition,' `improper interrogatives,' and much more. Ever seen such trash? <== this is an improper question
I like the bit that said 'Irony of ironies, the majority of webmasters making the requests are not native speakers themselves.' Strange, that. The majority of people requesting brain surgery aren't actually brain surgeons. And the majority of people requesting a kilo of minced beef aren't actually ... butchers. I think I'm starting to detect a pattern here.
@ Perry – I think we have some parallels in thinking here, although I’m not sure if that’s the message you were trying to send. The article was not written for native speakers. It was not written for those who speak other languages, but who already know how to market themselves effectively in English and have no trouble like I’m seeing on this forum. My (I’m sure you realized it was mine, right? ) message was for those who: - Can write well enough to create their own, effective, marketing materials (This excludes those who are scammers, spinners, plagiarizers or butchers of the English language), but don't because they didn't know how or they haven't gotten around to it yet. - Were born speaking another language or had the misfortune to grow up speaking English in a country where it is, perhaps not the norm. - Are discriminated against because of their country rather than their writing ability, which we already established is acceptable. You make an excellent point that all writers who can should be marketing themselves, and that’s my point as well – if the “native writer only†thing bothers a writer, market yourself and soon your country or background or the fact that you starting speaking English at 2 years instead of 8 months won’t matter. It may be true that these writers are few and far between, but I think there are more out there than show up. If nothing else, maybe this discussion will inspire them to work on their English enough to take them to the next level. An aside, there are plenty of writing gigs that don't require conversational English - technical writing, instructions, reviews or formal research can be written without a smooth "voice" in conversational English. @ contentboss – My argument with the non-native webmasters requesting non-native writers is simple. Web professionals from underdeveloped (and I use that term loosely – not offensively, I hope) are discriminated against by everyone from advertisers to PayPal. For them to turn around and discriminate against writers or other skilled individuals from their same country or region simply based on location is wrong. Of course, this is only a personal opinion, you might think discrimination is all the rage right now. So then you argue the marketing perspective – If these webmasters want to target American (or UK or Australian or Canadian) audiences, they need that “native voice†to do so. Absolutely, no argument there. However, the facts don’t support the theory. The postings I’ve seen looking for highly-targeted copywriting don’t usually say who CAN’T apply, they give the specifics of what that individual does need. For example, the client might ask for “UK English†or “Those who specialize in US fashion or entertainment.†This gives writers information about the job. I can’t write well in UK English, so I might offer by services with the stipulation that the client revise the work for usage errors in that form of the language or I’ll pass it by because it’s not a skill I have. If, on the other hand, I was born in Indian and then moved to the United States at age 12, I might be an expert in American television shows and follow all the actors in a variety of trade magazines. I can write powerful material chock full of details and perspectives others cannot. If you write “native speakers only†I’m not allowed to offer you my services. Instead, you pick a “writer†who is looking for beer money, has his girlfriend copy some random Wikipedia article and then changes a few words and sentences around to make it “unique.†Yup, that’s the highly effective material you paid for – I’m sure it will be accepted into the almighty EzineArticles or pass Copyscape. At $3 - $5 an “article†you can’t convince me that anyone is making a highly targeted marketing campaign where they need the expertise of a trained and educated content or copywriter. They are looking for sentences to throw on a site stuffed with keywords in hopes of making a few dollars. Who cares who writes it? It’s never going to build your website a real following of actual readers. “I need a native writer to write for an American audience at $5 a pop†is akin to saying “I need someone who’s watched a lot of television to turn my screenplay into a real production for $300.†Sure, they can speak the language, but so what? Speaking a language does not mean a person can write well in that language, and it certainly doesn’t mean that the individual understands how to write for an online audience – or that they even understand who your target market is. I guess the message here is two-fold: Writers, if you’re in this game for professional reasons, act that way – make a site, learn your craft and then market yourself to create a real brand that webmasters and businesses can trust. Webmasters, if you want someone trustworthy who knows how to write well to your market, look for someone who already does. Stop the mindless bandwagon of “native writers only†when you really mean “I’m looking for those who can form a complete sentence that makes sense to my market. I want someone who has been this business or at least researched it long enough to know how to act like a real professional – regardless of background or rates.â€
I wouldn't really call it discrimination. After all, if I needed brain surgery, I'd feel entitled to 'discriminate' against a bricklayer who just fancied trying his hand at brain surgery after a few pints down the pub. No point hiring someone to do the job if they can't do the job For example, I really resent being 'discriminated' against just because I can't speak fluent swahili. It's so unfair, and all I want to do is write articles for swahili magazines.
Again, we're saying the same thing, me thinks. If I need brain surgery, I wouldn't head to Australian to find a brain surgeon, I think I'd find one nearby. One I could communicate with effectively and one who was inside my own country so that the laws of the land protected me against any injustice. In the case of writers, this is true for copyright laws and scams. The question was never if they could do the job. There are lots of writers (from everywhere) who can't write (although many think they can, strangely enough), but I'm only suggesting that some webmasters fail to even give writers in their own country a chance when they can do the job at hand by laying down blanket statements.