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66.102.9.104

Discussion in 'Google' started by webvivre, Nov 9, 2005.

  1. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #61
    Are you sure? The IBM (magicians) claims 15,000 members. Let's assume that each magician who is a member is required to link to the site with a logo or a link that says IBM. 15,000 incoming links surely would be plenty to rank front page for the term.

    And if you believe in relevance, each link is supremely relevant. As magicians are linking to a magician site; so each link carries extra weight. Again, if you believe in relevance (which i do).
    SEMrush
    Its a funny result as I've never heard of the group before, but I don't think its totally out of the realm.
     
    lorien1973, Nov 11, 2005 IP
    SEMrush
  2. a389951l

    a389951l Must Create More Content

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    #62
    But that is the magic of Google search results - somethings we can not and should not understand.
     
    a389951l, Nov 11, 2005 IP
  3. scottj

    scottj Peon

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    #63
    I couldn't agree more. Between different DCs, the results are certainly inconsistent. But there are only two or three sets of results that I'm seeing out there. And within those sets, there is much consistency. And the set the looks final seems to be fairly clean--definitely not messy.
     
    scottj, Nov 11, 2005 IP
  4. aeiouy

    aeiouy Peon

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    #64
    The IBM thing is the perfect example why this is so much folly. People complain about rankings changing and such when it is not even possible for a real accurate rating to ever exist. Let alone there being one a single indivudal could sort and order for anything except a nonsensical keyword.

    I know when people work hard and do all the things they think they are supposed to do and get that first page ranking, they think they own that ranking... but they are really just lucky more than anything. There are likely pages out there that deserve to be there more than your page or my page. At least in most cases. Yet we call Google a quack or disorganized if we fall from favor.

    If your search term has 15,000,000 hits, for example, how could you possibly know that you deserved to be in the top 20.. And I think in the almost complete majority of case some argument could be made for a ridiculous number of sites.

    This is why Google keeps trying to tweak things. They are trying to make ti better. There is no right or wrong.. There can only be better and worse. Yet there is no real standard or measurement for better or worse.. So ultimately that is up to google to decide.

    I just think with this changes google tries to tweak things to get better results. Sometimes they are right, and sometimes they are wrong. Problem is too many people think they are right when it helps them and wrong when it hurts them, and that is unlikely to be the case most of the time.
     
    aeiouy, Nov 11, 2005 IP
  5. fryman

    fryman Kiss my rep

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    #65
    That should be so logical for everyone... but for some reason it isn't

    It is the same as calling all the results SPAM, I think I have heard that term 987 times since this update started.
     
    fryman, Nov 11, 2005 IP
  6. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #66
    I think we can all point to specific searches where the top listings are debatably spam. I don't hesitate to admit that I'm biased, I want to be top on all my possible searches, but I know when I don't deserve it so I don't whine about it a whole lot, but when spam, 404s, and totally non-relevant pages are above me, thats when I have problems.
     
    lorien1973, Nov 11, 2005 IP
  7. fryman

    fryman Kiss my rep

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    #67
    If a "spam" page is above you, they must be doing SOMETHING right. Instead of complaining, why not work and improve your site and beat it?

    The thread at WMW is just pathetic, it must have over 1,000 posts, full of whiners. Amazing how people would rather spend their time crying about this instead of getting back to work.
     
    fryman, Nov 11, 2005 IP
  8. Barre Tire

    Barre Tire Peon

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    #68
    AEIOUY This time I actually agree with your logic for the most part.
     
    Barre Tire, Nov 11, 2005 IP
  9. Barre Tire

    Barre Tire Peon

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    #69
    I also feel that some people here have made some valid point while others are basically whining. The reallity is that no matter where you end up you can't change the present.. I have stopped watching the data centers and have gone to work improving my site. I have lost a few positions and gained a few but what I have realised is that my site need's work.. Now is the time to do that...If I offend anyone I am sorry but I will repeat that the constant whining from some people ( Not all in here don't get me wrong) is carrying this situation way to far..
     
    Barre Tire, Nov 11, 2005 IP
  10. Barre Tire

    Barre Tire Peon

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    #70
    Fryman sorry I didn't see your post about the whining, WMW is rediculous on this subject but I have seen a few in here as well.
     
    Barre Tire, Nov 11, 2005 IP
  11. fryman

    fryman Kiss my rep

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    #71
    The problem at WHM is that people think that Googleguy is actually going to read their posts and press the red button to fix things and get their site up to the top 5

    Matt Cutts got his blog full of whiners also. Normal posts get a few comments, but the ones about Jagger were just flooded with people crying about results, as if Matt was going to change things for them.
     
    fryman, Nov 11, 2005 IP
  12. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #72
    WMW is definitely the worst at the complaining side of it. I don't get why that is the site that Google has decided all information will be disseminated. Blows me away.

    Normally, I'd agree. But you and I both know that sometimes a page's ranking on google is arbitrary and seems to have little rational behind it. There are lots of searches where this is the case. Normally you can claim its because the domain has lots of links (slashdot) so any page it wants to rank for, it will, whether or not the page is actually relevant to a given search or not, is besides the point.
     
    lorien1973, Nov 11, 2005 IP
  13. fryman

    fryman Kiss my rep

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    #73
    The real problem here is that nobody has actually figured out what kind of algo Google used on this update.
     
    fryman, Nov 11, 2005 IP
  14. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #74
    I think mcdar or foxy said it another thread; and I agree with it. I think it was an extended roll out of a new programming set to - probably update and fix - changes that were made in previous updates that were hacked into the system. This update was meant to better integrate everything and allow for future updates to be more fluid.

    In the mean time, it caused a loss of some data (see mcdar's results) for a short period while everything was being rebuilt.

    Given that many sites are returning to almost identical pre-jagger results, it almost seems as the only logical explanation.

    They probably thru in some new minor changes into the mix too, but, yeah who knows what those were right now. Since everyone is crying and not many are analyzing, its hard to really tell.
     
    lorien1973, Nov 11, 2005 IP
  15. Eazygoin

    Eazygoin Peon

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    #75
    Well Fryman and aeiouy, you both post on WMW as do I, and yes there is a lot of whining, but we also have to consider what a horrible feeling it must be if people are doing what they think is correct, and down they go in the SERP's. I guess it relieves the tension and frustration for many people. Also, many rely on professionals to make their websites search engine friendly.
    Personally, I have no complaints on the update, and have never complained, as it has been excellent for me, and gets better each day that passes. But that news isn't going to give the people losing out any satisfaction, so I feel for them. I am not sure who is doing well and who isn't, as I don't read the forums so much. But I do appreciate that the mathematical equation doesn't allow everyone to be indexed at the top. I would love to see everyone doing well, except for those abusing the system.
    Additionally, this has been the biggest update ever, and you both make valid points on here. My way of thinking is that if it doesn't work out this update, then it will the next one.
    I also believe that placing ones future in a single search engine is madness. There are many, many other forms of marketing a website.
     
    Eazygoin, Nov 11, 2005 IP
  16. webvivre

    webvivre Peon

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    #76
    If you manage to get top SERPs your marketing costs are minimal; if you have to use other forms of marketing online or offline the costs are large. Many do not have the financial resources to compete with the big boys.

    Consequently successful SERPs can be the life blood for small companies - it is no wonder that webmasters are upset if their site is kicked out, and are replaced by "spam".
     
    webvivre, Nov 11, 2005 IP
  17. Eazygoin

    Eazygoin Peon

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    #77
    I am sorry, but I totally disagree, regardind high costs. I do a huge amount of marketing, and it costs me virtually nothing. If I choose to pay, then its a business decision I make. However, 99% of my marketing is free.

    I agree regarding webmasters being upset, and quite rightly so, if their sites are replaced by people abusing the system by any kind of spamming.
     
    Eazygoin, Nov 11, 2005 IP
  18. webvivre

    webvivre Peon

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    #78
    Eazygoin
    But is your 99% of free marketing producing significant results (such as hits to YOUR web site)? Be honest....
    Sure there are other techniques but do they bring in significant traffic.
    If we lost our four million page views per month from SERPs in the real estate market, then media advertising, PR, magazine adverts, etc. would cost us big!
     
    webvivre, Nov 11, 2005 IP
  19. Eazygoin

    Eazygoin Peon

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    #79
    webvivre >>
    I am not in your league of 4m page views per month, as my site has only been up since April, but I can honestly say that Google currently covers 30% of my page views. The rest come from other search engines, articles, a blog, directories and so on. So, in effect I can only speak from personal experience,as a small business owner. I am in the fortunate position of having many of my pages listed in the first 3 listings of all 3 main search engine indexes,aswell.
    I respect your views, and am not trying to argue, but rather to give an alternative viewpoint :)
     
    Eazygoin, Nov 11, 2005 IP
  20. webvivre

    webvivre Peon

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    #80
    Eazygoin
    I am not trying to be critical of your business, but I am trying to put a perspective on how important SERPs are.
    We have blogs, forums, rss feeds, submit articles, links, optimise for other search engines, add to directories, create content daily, etc.. but at the end of the day Google SERPs are of paramount importance!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, eggs in one basket....
     
    webvivre, Nov 11, 2005 IP