45% of Americans don't go to college , Why do you consider yourselves well educated ?

I don't know Dr.Naik , by the way Naik means Fuck

 

A Muslim who believes in Atheism? Are you sure it isn't "Just a theory"? Maybe theres hope for you yet. How about the Jews? Kill em, or let em live? State of Israel?

 

In 2008, the last year for which I have figures, the Taliban destroyed 162 girls' schools and 88 boys schools in Swat.

A few days ago, Islamic gunmen wielding AK-47's destroyed a preschool in Gaza.

I think that's what counts as "Islamic support for education."

 

I'm ashamed to involve myself with the college system, but unfortunately I have to go through with it to do what I want to do. It's so funny seeing the logic in people... they think that in order to be smart, successful and have a good life, they need to go to college. The only people that know anything in this world however, have put their own minds to the problem; they are self-motivated and hungry for knowledge/wisdom. Success requires hard work, and I'd say a good life through self-knowledge.

Instead of realizing their intentions though, they go into debt. Gubment sees this as a good thing though because college = education = good so they pump out more debt and enlarge the bubble. Nothing is really being accomplished through all of this, except for the devaluation of money and degrees. Please OP, read a book for goodness sake.

 

Devaluation of degrees. Isn't that the truth. 30 years ago in 1980, a little over 17% of the American population had a four year college degree. The flood of new college applicants has opened new colleges left and right. Great time to be an educator. For the students, its a shame many of them don't consider the fact that increased supply in any market without an equally large increase in demand equates to a lower price, or wage.

It begs the question of how we poor, dumb, uneducated Americans got by before we had so many college graduates. Even in 1995, the heart of the internet boom, less than 25% of our population had a 4 year degree. We need to fix our poor, uneducated, backward nation.

Perhaps what we need is a federal mandate that everyone have a four year degree before entering the employment market. Lets do away with all the small businesses run by uneducated, backward, hillbilly amateurs. They are hardly capable of dealing with the complexities of labor relations contracts, compliance with federal, state, county, and city tax codes, government mandated insurance requirements, employee safety requirements, and other assorted compliance related tasks. Besides, I'm sure Walmart would do a much better job selling their cookbooks, nick nacks, or whatever their ideas might be, than they ever could. We can use standardized test scores and grades to matriculate people directly from federally a regulated school system to an appropriately matched job with one of the big companies(Microsoft, Google, BP, GM, Citibank, Walmart, etc), or even better, work directly for the government. The transition would be seamless. Those who come up with clever ideas can be promoted, perhaps even to head of the department that promotes or sells their brainchild. Everyone else should know their role. Its beautiful!

 

well same here ... that all of our jobs are taking by INDIANS and then from other country peopls ... last i heard in somewhere that ... 62% of indians work in america my god 62% wth is this ... ???

 

You can thank big business connections in congress for that. In 1992, there were less than 50k H1B Visas issued. By 2002, there were more than a million. They have been adding more than 150,000 to that number every year, even during this recession when most companies were laying off. Not that it matters, but 46% of the H1B holders are Indian. Everyone is in an uproar about illegal immigration in Arizona and almost nobody complains about the legal immigration that is keeping this recovery jobless in the tech sector.

 

Well I'm not an Atheist by anyway , I read about Atheism but didn't make sense for me also I found a site posting clear fake information about Muslims to make them look bad which strengthened my beliefs in Islam , and I don't know what Naik you are talking about , I have many Jewish friends yes and everything goes normal , I hate the Israeli government and Army but I don't mix hatred with the civils and hatred with the government BTW most of them don't like what their army does to Palestinians .

Yes Israel attacks Innocents , kills children , Bombards schools and I hate that way ,, But Jews had lived with us in medieval ages normally so I don't say no if they want to live normally without killing people and stealing oil .

@will spencer ,
Such stuff proves complete ignorance to me about your knowledge to Islam , Do you take Islam from Taliban ?? Taliban is POLITICAL not religious , they just use religion as a tool , when will you understand ?

Read the Quran , or Verified Hadiths and then come back and tell me "Islam discourages education " but this time with proof from Islam .

 

My attitude reflects my ability to reason. Press me on it if you dare and see where it leads.

 

From a PRO-Islam site: http://www.rasoulallah.net/v2/document.aspx?lang=en&doc=286

Yes... serious scientific value there, plus a great opportunity for a newspaper column on plant psychology:

QUESTION

ANSWER

Y'all shouldn't offer us sites to look at. Easier to claim it's educational & scientific if we dont see the material.

 

Oops. Misprint. The word I meant was evolution, not atheism. Obviously if you are Muslim you are not atheist. Do you believe in evolution? I only asked the Israel/Palestinian question to provide some context to your views. Its off topic for this thread, so I wont go into it with you here.

LoL. So from which Arab state do you hail?

 

The OP got it wrong actually 72% Americans don't go to college. Not that it matters as long as they don't become a liability on the country.

While I agree that a college degree is not a measure of aptitude..but look at joseph who is 26 years old. 62% Indians would mean 650 million people which is double the population of US dumbo!

other country peopls?
well same here ... that all of our jobs?
are taking by INDIANS?
last i heard in somewhere?

With that kind of grammar and IQ, I can assure you that no one took your job as most legal immigrants take up jobs which you wouldn't even be able to apply for.

I don't get it..US government issues H1B's only because there aren't enough skilled/qualified people America to fill up those jobs at reasonable pays so I don't get what anyone can complain about. Today computer users can afford high speed machines, advanced operating systems and softwares just because the chunk of the R&D is done in India/China or by Asians in the west. Leave it to the Americans and we'll see who pays $7,889.99 for Windows 7 or $20,000 for an intel processor.

Talk about taking away jobs

 

And when they do become a liability we'll just force them into college. Well, the ones that are worthy at least. The rest will be assigned unskilled jobs that the state deems necessary for optimal economic output.

 

Do you have a stat that shows 45% don't go to college? How many go for a year or two and then drop out? If you have a bit of content to your "45% assumption", it would go a long way. Many thanks.

 

Helvetti! Welcome back!

I believe the accurate number is around 68%

You've hit the nail on the head. It is all about what big business considers reasonable pay. Believe me there are plenty of qualified people in America to fill these jobs. There has been, and continues to be, a large demand for IT skills in the US. That demand drove compensation for IT jobs pretty high for almost a decade and those salaries were cutting heavily into profit margins of big corporations. The solution: Import cheap labor from overseas to drive rates down. Imagine spending 8 years building up a deep resume and having your wage cut in half because your government imported programmers from Pakistan willing to do your job at a fraction of the price. This is what is going on right now in America.

The first foreign workers in IT in the US first started to be noticed in the workplace around 1995. It was comic. They could hardly speak English. Their skills were completely substandard. Almost everything built by these guys had to be torn apart and rebuilt. 15 years later, Banglor turns out a fairly decent programmer at a bargain rate. 150,000 every year imported means 150,000 less jobs available to college grads in the US who just got through spending $40,000 for their CS degree. How much does the guy in Banglor pay for his IT degree? Wages for IT in the US right now are about 70% of what they were almost a decade ago in non-inflation adjusted dollars. Accounting for inflation, foreign workers have cut USA IT compensation in half.

The fact that 46% come from India is irrelevant in my opinion. They could come from Mars for all I care. I'm just wondering what asshat senator thinks its OK to give 150,000 good paying non-union jobs to foreigners in the middle of a f*cking recession.

Look at the market cap and profit margins of companies like Apple and Google. You really think they are going to go broke if they pay market rate for labor? Its out and out theft from the American people, facilitated by Congress once again.

Sorry but the whole argument that prices will skyrocket is also horsesh*t. People make the same argument for Latinos picking tomatoes. "Whose going to pay 10$ a tomato if Americans do the work?". Prices will go up a bit if we pick our own tomatoes, its true. People with jobs will be able to afford those tomatoes. This is the stupid and ugly twin of price fixing on the opposite side of the market by Unions. They want their entry level laborers to make 40k a year plus benefits because they think it is just. LET THE MARKET DECIDE THE WAGE!

No, in exchange for the privilege of selling their cars in a US Market, they use US labor for the cars sold here. One of the few decent pieces of legislation put through congress in a long time. You have only to look at our trade deficit with foreign nations to appreciate the FACT that we produce a lot more jobs in their countries than they produce in ours.

 

Grants, scholarships, loans are all available. If someone doesn't want to go to college, more power to them.

I don't see a lot of inventions coming out of countries outside US.

China population has 10% hepatitis b. Should we stereotype this 10% too?

go to college if you want. Bill Gates doesn't have a degree and he made out ok in life.

 

H1B's can only be issued when those jobs cannot be filled domestically and the wages offered to immigrants have to be the same as those offered to current worker in the same position.

Doesn't seem like they just replace US workers with cheap labor.

Besides atleast 8 of the top ten companies receiving H1B's are Indian companies.

In case of US companies:

Top ten U.S. technology companies receiving H-1Bs
Company H-1Bs Received 2006
Microsoft 3517
Cognizant 2226
IBM 1130
Oracle Corporation 1022
Cisco 828
Intel 828
Motorola 760
Qualcomm 533
Yahoo 347
Hewlett-Packard 333
Google 328

Doesn't seem enough to bring down wages when you compare those numbers with the total employee numbers of the said corps.

Anyways if the government doesn't allow immigrants into the country, the tech firms will move out of the country. Its already happening, hiring Asians in Asia to do work for you is much more profitable than hiring Americans or immigrants in America.

 

Cant believe this topics still getting answers. The OP opened it and has pounded on that one stat in here and multiple threads, grasping it in hopes somebody'd believe it proved anything. Anyone that looks at a single stat and makes sweeping judgments is just proving they need more stat classes.

To the OP: How ARE you getting beat by us idiots you ask?
In this case the ONE stat he's looking at fails to take into consideration a host of related factors. The OP for example seems to wonder how his third world haunts could be getting their fiscal butts kicked by a country that based on this one stat does not seem to value education.

Did you look at the other stats?

Overall education vs educating a portion of the country
The country that shows the highest number of years of education per citizen is... yeah, the US. Compare it to the areas you're in and you'll figure out that our typical citizen is better educated than in many countries. Does that mean we dont have scads of raving drooling idiots? Naah, we have plenty, every country does. The simple point is that on average the US citizen has at least been exposed to more education than his counterparts elsewhere.

High literacy rates for all, not a few
Another factor to watch... the literacy rates. Most civilized countries will have a max of a few percent illiterate. The US, UK, Canada, etc al come in with around 1 percent. Compare with the countires you are from. We do not limit education to just those that go to university, and literate man can educate himself in any topic of his choosing.

Treating women as partners instead of property
But then I said literate man... what about the women? In the US the literacy rate for women is 99%. That incidentally is exactly the rate of literacy for the country as a whole, so a little interpolation tells you our women are educated, as are the men.

Lets look at the literacy rates for women in other countries.
Oooh, those numbers suck in a lot of places. Check the ones where the members in this thread that have been laughing at this one overplayed statistic live. Check Egypt, Pakistan, Saudi, Turkey, etc. WTF? You are showing up at the economic fight with one hand tied. Are ya really that threatened by 'em?

Conclusion: Share education and opportunity with ALL... including women, Christians, Jews, etc
Even the "poor" in our country are wealthy by standards in many places. The less educated can make a good living, and we do not have any caste system that denies them opportunities due to race, religion, or gender. Until these cultures learn that ALL their citizens are worthy of education and opportunities... they are leaving valuable producing assets out of the lineup. Until these cultures learn that women are their equals instead of their property... they are only bringing half their citizens to bear at creating progress and are doomed to remain in a third class nation due to outdated misogynist fears that somehow you lose your manhood when you fail to dominate women.

If I can make a suggestion... take up golf. It's more fun than treating women as second class citizens, and the economy you save by ending that ancient practice could be your own. Welcome to the 21st century. Take off the bedsheets and grab a pair of blue jeans, get the bride outta the beekeeper outfit and put her in decent clothes... then go down and buy her a book or two. Maybe you wont be stuck looking for things to say to make you feel superior to Americans if you help your country outta its centuries old habit of looking to the old ways. They arent working.

 

Yep, but on a larger scale it is America's high corporate tax rates that are pushing business towards overseas competitors.

 

@Helvetti: You cant reason away the laws of supply and demand with legal wording from the text of a bill. 150,000 new imported workers a year increase supply, not demand. Wages stagnate and lower as a result. Period. I didn't invent the rules so don't shoot the messenger. Also, your claim of these foreign workers getting equal pay is a misnomer. I'm sure I don't need to explain to you how easy it is for a company to claim there are no "Local Workers" who can fill the job. It is even easier to fight off law suits Pretaining to "prevailing wage" since none of these companies are unionized. I know more than a couple American software developers who have been looking for work for a very long time, and the ones who are working have all taken cuts in pay.

You've given me a good idea though. Perhaps what some of these software giants need to goad them down the path of righteousness is the threat of organized labor. Just imagine what the teamsters would do to a company like Microsoft? If these companies had to truly pay "prevailing wage" to H1B workers, I suspect the inflow would stop immediately. Its a bit like burning the house down to get rid of the termites, but if thats what it takes, I'm in.

Which ones of those are Indian companies?

Horsesh*t. If they could do that, they already would be. They've been trying to do it for more than a decade. Why do you think the H1B program got to where it is today? Companies lost fortunes to Indian "Outsourcing" firms who built products abroad. I'm not saying it can't be done, but software development in the fortune 500 normally happens in a location where the business analysts can communicate with the customers AKA the USA.