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4 Years Later... Has Anything Changed?

Discussion in 'Copywriting' started by jhmattern, Nov 24, 2014.

  1. Kenya Writer

    Kenya Writer Active Member

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    #21
    Nothing has changed.
    SEMrush
     
    Kenya Writer, Dec 25, 2014 IP
    SEMrush
  2. Content Maestro

    Content Maestro Notable Member

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    #22
    I guess you already made this point in your previous post. o.o?
    Has anything changed? >:\
     
    Content Maestro, Dec 26, 2014 IP
    jrbiz likes this.
  3. Kenya Writer

    Kenya Writer Active Member

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    #23
    lol, could not recall. Actually, it has been a couples of weeks before I logged in here.
     
    Kenya Writer, Dec 27, 2014 IP
  4. DomainMagnate

    DomainMagnate Illustrious Member

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    #24
    Hey Jenn! Welcome back.
    I vaguely remember you, we must've interacted a bit back in the day. Is the writing business treating you well lately?
    Things change and stay the same.. I was actually just about to post a thread about looking for a tech writer again.
     
    DomainMagnate, Jan 4, 2015 IP
  5. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #25
    Yeah, you can get most anything for near nothing and pretty much everyone expects everything for nothing. As a result, the "change" is in the hands of those that provide these services. We've all had to diversify and branch out to other areas in an attempt to remain competitive. When you're dealing with a global market you find you no longer have a captive audience and minimal competition. Tis the nature of things.
     
    Mia, Jan 5, 2015 IP
  6. Melisa455

    Melisa455 Active Member

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    #26
    Nothing change much for me.
    But I do have to agree that the prices for copy writing and content writing has fallen greatly.

    I do write my own articles sometimes. And at times, I buy articles.
    Just wonder if there are good writer here on Digital forum?
     
    Melisa455, Jan 26, 2015 IP
  7. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #27
    That seems like a change to me.
     
    Mia, Jan 26, 2015 IP
  8. Content Maestro

    Content Maestro Notable Member

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    #28
    Really??:rolleyes: That's because you look *only* at the freelance job boards for the most part. The best writng jobs out there are never/seldom advertised. Contact prospects directly and pitch in a convincing tone. Then you'll see what money copy/content-writing actually treats you. Clients valuing and ready to pay the proper price for content are there in plenty. You just have to proactively find them out. "Content is always the king".;)
    There certainly are. Don't go just by the rates they charge. Most of them are deliberately lowballing just to stay in the market and competition. Some don't even advertise their services!
     
    Content Maestro, Jan 26, 2015 IP
  9. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #29
    But you are easily able to find the same quality content for near nothing overseas... Engrish is getting much better these days.
     
    Mia, Jan 27, 2015 IP
  10. Content Maestro

    Content Maestro Notable Member

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    #30
    Not that I'm challenging you, but high-quality doesn't always come for nothing or near nothing. Yes, there are some cases when a good-quality writer is selling their services for cheap, but they can't afford to continue working that way for long. Consider even the countries where the monetary value of a dollar goes much ahead. The rate so often quoted around here i.e. $1 per 100 words is not good even there! I'm a non-native writer myself (from India) and this rate is very hard for me to get by. (Just can't imagine how natives manage to work at this rate!)
    And when the content you're getting is written in “Engrish”, it certainly is far away from what you can call 'quality'. :) ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
    Content Maestro, Jan 27, 2015 IP
  11. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #31
    You are preaching to the choir here. The business/industry I am in is not immune to this either. Hopefully you could find the sarcasm in the "Engrish" comment.

    What we're up against are people selling hosting at a buck a year and the quality of service is "Engrish" at best as well.... Trouble is there are more and more people out there that could care less about the "value proposition" as it concerns quality and reliability over cost.

    I still contend, things "HAVE" changed ;)
     
    Mia, Jan 27, 2015 IP
  12. Content Maestro

    Content Maestro Notable Member

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    #32
    Haha, I don't mean to “preach” anything here; I was just sharing my view of the situation. Certainly, not everyone will agree to it. :)
    Well, I don't know much about the hosting industry, so I've to ask you - how long are people offering hosting at a buck a year able to do it? And do people prioritizing price over quality/reliability stay or survive in the market?

    I HOPE I got your point right.:rolleyes:
     
    Content Maestro, Jan 27, 2015 IP
  13. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #33
    It is sustainable because there are literally tens of thousands of places offering it this low. Even the giants are, 1&1, Godaddy, etc.. They have a business concept that says for every 1 customer we lose, we sign up 10 so we could care less if they leave based on quality of service. As for the fly by nights, again, does not really matter... You have a cheap plan, site goes down you move to another cheap plan. Its the same in every industry. People are cheap by nature. Very few recognize or appreciate value. They usually put dollars first.

    I think anyone that finds the "content" writing industry different is lying to themselves.
     
    Mia, Jan 28, 2015 IP
  14. Kenya Writer

    Kenya Writer Active Member

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    #34
    Mixed feelings and ideas. This is awesome :)
     
    Kenya Writer, Jan 28, 2015 IP
  15. coreygeer

    coreygeer Notable Member

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    #35
    Lol, GoDaddy.

    Too bad that people have no idea what they're getting with those "cheap" sites. Most of them are terribly designed, aren't responsive, aren't cross-browser compatible in all the elements, are piss poorly designed from a UX viewpoint and etc.

    Aside from your "people are cheap" argument, this isn't even close to the truth.

    When Wendys (yes... the Wendys) wanted their website re-done, what do you think they did? They sure didn't come to a place like here and look for $100 developers. They paid half a million dollars to a company I'm familiar with in Ohio called Resource Interactive. Corporations ignore low ballers and low budget developers when they want a website done.

    Cheap people are cheap but it's definitely not everyone. You're out of your mind if you honestly think you get the same level of "quality" from those cheap freelancers asking for peanut pay. You have no idea how many websites I've taken over from a former peanut developer that needed to be re-done from the ground up because they were developed so piss poorly. My god, the amount of outdated plugins those people like to install on Wordpress sites... ugh..

    As for writing, it's the exact same. When corporations want their copy done, they sure as hell don't come to marketing forums and look for $1 writers. They take the highest bidder. Companies have sales pitch associates they have to pay out that actually go out and propose a sales letter or content to these companies.

    As for this place, yes, it's filled with cheap people who think they're going to make an internet legacy off of $1 per 100 word content. It's never going to happen. You can try to argue the point that "oh, you'll find talented $1 writers overseas for the same price" but you won't. You'll find people trying to make a quick buck and there's no one that's willing to spend the amount of time required to actually make something readable that'll make the client money and keep visitors coming back.

    Cheap people are always going to look for an excuse but they'll never get ahead. They'll continue to buy the same cheap content and wonder why their site continues at a stalemate or Google slaps them. I've seen it time and time again.

    In short... If you want the best, you'll have to pay for the best. If mediocrity is what you're looking for, continue to pay out mediocre developers.
     
    coreygeer, Jan 29, 2015 IP
  16. Content Maestro

    Content Maestro Notable Member

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    #36
    It's not only the buyers who blindly believe what they get for peanuts is 'quality' that make the picture sad, it's also some of the sellers. Some writers aren't really good at setting fees or pricing structure for their services. They don't have the business sense or acumen necessary to make profits and falsely think that prices people usually bid on places like Elance/Odesk, Freelancer, DP etc. are the right market standards. When you see a low rate like $1 per 100 words being quoted almost everywhere, it's quite natural for you to believe it to be the ideal rate. This is unfortunately happening with many of the talented writers out there and I suppose misinformation or lack of proper guidance is its greatest cause. A widespread awareness needs to be created about what writers should actually charge for their work and why. Another factor is the fear of being turned down. A lot of prospects immediately shift their interest to a different writer just because they charge a cent less per word. So, a lot of writers deliberately lowball merely to stay in the competition and grab work. There are also some who think that if they bid a higher than usual price, the potential client will immediately run away. It doesn't happen every time. Many clients wait for the writer to make the first offer and some argue about the price just to see how the writer responds. Most of the times, if you reason with a client properly and professionally about why you think a certain price is fair or not, they will see your point and be ready to pay the price you ask without balking. (I'm not talking about the cheap bargainers you find here or at similar places. No matter how much you try to convince them, your efforts will be in vain.) People valuing quality and ready to pay the proper price for it are there in plenty. They know quite well what's at stake when buying cheap. You just need to look at them to be able to see this higher-paying part of the market.

    Any good writer selling their services for cheap CANNOT afford to continue working this way for long. To survive, they have to raise their prices. If they don't, they eventually come to a point where they have to quit and acquire a different trade skill to make money.

    For a person who has deluded themselves into thinking that high-quality comes for cheap, whatever the reason, any amount of reasoning and logical argument is NEVER going to change their view. Time is the ultimate test that speaks for itself. Quality gets the better of everything else in the end and the cheap is eventually weeded out. Bad phases and slumps are there, but that DOESN'T mean that things are going to be depressing forever. A change for the better is always there. :)
     
    Content Maestro, Jan 29, 2015 IP
  17. TechnoFuture7

    TechnoFuture7 Peon

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    #37
    No shortcut to quality.
     
    TechnoFuture7, Jan 29, 2015 IP
  18. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #38
    Frankly a lot of these companies do employ some relatively cheap outfits to do the work. Some do it in house. And still others, like in your example pay a ridiculous amount of money for something we could have down for 5 figures, not 6.

    Most people ARE cheap... It's your job and mine to employ a value proposition to find clients who recognize VALUE and are willing to pay for it.

    There's another end to the spectrum which includes OVERPAYING for something. In your example, I think Wendy's may have wasted some money. Their web site is SLOW, CROWDED and lacks the one thing people that go to it are looking for; A MENU!
     
    Mia, Jan 30, 2015 IP
  19. coreygeer

    coreygeer Notable Member

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    #39
    What? The website isn't slow at all. If you're running a Windows 98 with Dial Up.. maybe it's slow.

    If we're going to judge websites though, let's see what HostDrive is (from your signature).

    Ah nice, the first thing I see is this blotchy text shadow effect.
    They've got a whole bunch of styling that 1) isn't needed and 2) isn't short handed or condensed just in their menu alone.
    They're using a gif file as a background placement for list items...
    The sub-menus look like something that a beginner would design up in Photoshop to test things out
    The site isn't responsive and starts going off screen at 1036 viewport width
    I don't know who HostDrive paid to have their site done but whatever they payed is the definition of overpaying

    You say they overpayed but they had several departments and teams working on every single aspect of that site.

    In 2015 if a site isn't mobile ready, responsive and compatible on every single hand held device currently out, you're going to lose a lot of potential customers. A lot of traffic comes from off-computer browsers.

    You're out of your mind if you're telling me that there's any web developer or team out there that is willing to make sure it's compatible in every aspect and make sure the site works in every browser for a cheap price. They're going to slap up something together that looks like Hostdrive.

    When you "overpay" as you put it, you're paying for every aspect of something to get done. There's a think tank, there's a design department, there's a development department, there's a sales department, there's a negotiator, there's the quality assurance department and so on.

    No one person can do all of those things alone or at least do them well. I don't care how cheap someone is that advertises themselves as a "jack of all" trades.

    Most people are cheap because they're broke and they're desperately hoping that some cheap content will put money in their pockets. It doesn't work that way and it never will, especially in 2015.

    It just kills me that as Google started valuing quality content over the years, people started de-valuing quality content in general.

    I don't think most people are cheap, I think Digital Point and freelancing boards just give people a jaded view of freelance work.
     
    coreygeer, Jan 31, 2015 IP
  20. geegel

    geegel Well-Known Member

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    #40
    Now this thread really is a blast from the past.

    As for me, I'm still writing, but no longer freelancing. I've been specializing in Conversion Rate Optimization (CRO) these last few years and now my career has taken me a full circle back to writing.

    More exactly I work in email marketing, so my work involves (in no particular order): segmentation, analytics, planning and obviously copywriting.

    Nice to see you back Jenn.

    Regards,
    George
     
    geegel, Feb 2, 2015 IP