yo-yo wrote: Yes, you are right it migh appear that way but i was refering to your statement here Drug addictions have a greater probability in crime then alcohol addiction or gambling. And gambling and alcohol addiction is another kind of addiction then heroine. And for your information and i am surely not telling you something new here gambling addiction can result in crime and the same goes as well for alcoholics but to a minor degree then heroine or cocaine. The reason why cocaine or heroine should not be legalized is because the treshold of getting a compulsive addiction is very low for the majority of the first time users in comparisement with alcohol and gambling. It's because of the addiction towards the drug crime is happening... or would you disagree on this? hrblcantra wrote: It was you saying a smaller community would be a reason legalizing it because this would be a major advantage in controlling it to not distribute in under minors. Respond to what question? Point it out to me again and i will happely answer this for you. if you can't your making things up. Yes, unfortunately this is also true Ok, so that makes two of us Why research it? wasn't the misery you have seen and expierenced enough to see you musn't legalize it? mia wrote: I'm glad someone's out here that knows reality from fiction
The thing is that this is very hard to proove. Some mean person could just put som heroin in your bag if he/she wants. But if it was prooved with materials such as videorecording from security cams then we need to punish such person for beeing a parasite in our community. I suggest 6 months of saddamstyle torture and then medical death penalty.
I willing to bet everyone here has had addiction of sort sort effect their family. When I lived in SF half the people I knew were doing something, some people partied on the weekends and still had great carreers and lives, some people went in downward spiral until they were homeless. One best friends from were I grew up in ny died of an overdose, I have seen all kinds of crazy drug stuff. You see mia you are walking contradiction you wave the conservative flag but then you want governement to intefer with personal lives, which is totally against conservative principals of smaller government. Yes drugs are bad, if there was a way to make them go away that would be great, but there isn't and they are here to stay. And rather then locking up millions fo citizens for victimless crimes they is a better way to do it. Yes alcohol is the very similiar to any other hard drug, walk past any city mission and see the hardcare alcohol addicts and its pretty obvious.
Hmm, did you know hrblcantra there are some serious studies and such in development to block the effectiveness of cocaine by making adjustments at the brain with birth. And i am not refering to earlier practices that tried to suppres the need for cocaine but a new method. Kind of a scary thought you would be operated the minute you where born
I was saying that under current laws and society in the US it is easier for minors in the US to get illegal drugs than it is to get their legal counterpart. I was not making anything up, I was trying to show how you can use legal substances to compare illegal substances even if they are not exactly the same, or as bad for you. Simple, without knowing actual facts you are only thinking with your heart from your experience and not on any actual logical basis that is going to make the situation better than it currently is.
I just want an answer to the question.... Do you think everything addicting should be outlawed? Drugs, Porn, Gambling, Alcohol, Internet, etc... I'm willing to bet if I looked hard enough I could find an "expert" in an article stating "porn is worse and hurts more people than drugs", "alcohol is worse and hurts more people than drugs", "gambling is worse and hurts more people than drugs".... The fact is these activities alone do not cause bad things. It's the already unstable stupid person. Drugs, Porn, Gambling.. they're all catalysts for weak people. Just because weak people are severely effected does not mean you should take it away from the strong.
I fail to see where agreeing with a country for punsihing someone for breaking a law is a contradiction of a conservative view point. BTW, I carry only one flag, I'll give you a hint, it's got stars and stripes on it... I've not seen anyone inject alcohol into their viens with dirty needles. Alcohol is a mood altering depressant drug. Herion is not. There is a clear difference between them. For one, Herion removes all physical and emotional pain when taken. Alcohol does not. Herion is also a Class A drug, it is illegal to supply or posses it just about everywhere I know of. Alcohol on the other hand is not. There is a difference.
hrblcantra wrote: Well i'm sorry if i misunderstood you but you did ad the underlying quote to your list of things that would be benificiary when Hard-drugs would be legalized. And making it legal doesn't help in any way to withhold minors from getting their hands on H. You where saying i failed to respond? i'm sorry that i didn't pick up on your oppinion and agreed with you but me not responding in for you a postive way does not mean i fail to respond and me putting up a smokescreen. For instance when i talk about cigarettes, you make it tabaco we all know cigarettes are made from the substance tobacco but pure tobacco itself is quite poisinous and deadly. You bring up tobacco and making it seems like i am the one bringing this up when i only refered to cigarettes. In my book that's putting up a smokescreen and avoiding something you maybe find difficult to discuss further up uppon. If i may make a comparison? Put 200 test subjects and let 100 of them use the needle for 1 month (H) and 100 people drink alcohol for a month. Which group will be having the most difficulties when released in society on their own? which group will probably have the most individual cases of substance addiction if they where told not to use the substance they where using during the test period? I bet my life the 100 people that where doing H will result by far most with individual cases of addiction that can not be controlled or ignored. Maybe so? Maybe i don't have the perspective that you have that might explain why legalisation of H would be the best thing to do and i would be very curious if you can convince me with your facts. Seriously hrblcantra, this is holds no sarcastic purpose me asking you this. In my oppinion legalisation would mean closing the eyes to a serious drughazard that when not having the oppurtunity to purchase it can bring out the worst in a person even though it's legal and cheaper. The only way this legalisation would work is to make it absolutely free but do we want to give people the oppurtunity to destroy their body and soul? also some cases of indiduals that are going to be mentaly damaged (psychoses and other disorders) by this H and maybe causing harm to other people? yo-yo wrote: No, i don't think everything that can result in addiction should be outlawed. The strong you talk about? That's a very, very small percentage. If you outweigh the strong against the weak then i certainly choose to save the weak and their families and the victims in the process to deny the strong the Heroine. And risking peoples lives for that small percentage of ''strong people'' is in my oppinion not worth it! Do you think it's worth it? By the way guys....i am accepted for the adsense program
Yes it does, right now in a city a youth can go to any street corner and buy drugs w/o question. Legalized and controlled they would need some form of ID, and most of those street corner dealers would no longer exist. You did fail to respond, and I have no worry on this subject as the opinion keep it completely illegal and sweep it under the rug as it's being done in the US is not working one bit. Cigarettes are made from unrefined tobacco in some cases and it is totally relevant thank you for proving my point. You are taking the stance that no matter what drug X on the street is bad but could not be improved by being legal and controlled. Yet tobacco in most cases being sold legally goes through a refining process causing tobacco to become safer, still deadly but safer. Thank you for proving my point, hope you now understand where your reasoning is trully flawed. As for the rest at the moment I'm not going to respond, I may yet I'll have to see. First I'd like to see your responce to the above, it's hook line and sinker but I'm sure you'll try somehow to dispute it.
This was definitely too harsh of a punishment. Shame on the Singapore government for showing such barbarism on this day and age. Shame shame shame.
There would be even more drug dealers for the minors since there a profit can be made of these youths restriction to legal H. Cigarettes doesn't cause the same withdrawl or illnesses as heroine, your point is still not proven as mine is very clear. I may yet i'll have to see...pff get of your high horse because someone doesn't share your oppinion doesn't mean they are less then you. If you are in a discussion such as this you can expect resistance towards your views. You have the kind of attitude that everyone that is disputing you is immediately the enemy obviously.
Wrong they already exist how would this cause more? Beer is legal, minors want beer that does not equate to beer dealers on the street. Ummm so instead of at least saying something such as I can see that it could be a bit safer you decide to again gloss over that fact all together, figured you would. Has nothing to do with a hi horse, but when you can't even agree on simple fact and when you're proven totally and completely wrong it makes me wonder why I even bother. Dispute is one thing, continuing with no factual basis to try to say 'but, but, but' is another.
No longer exist? because of the fact that minors are restricted from legal H this would result in a rise of dealers for these minors because that's where the profits going to be. Is there any illegal beer that minors would be seriously interested in? I can not believe H can be refined to be not addictive and not causing physical flaws compared to the refining of cigarettes. (these can cause other illnesses, i know) If you can prove me otherwise by showing the results of your research i could give this legality issue an second oppinion. Funny, i think the same thing about you.
Stop talking in circles.. it's making you look really bad... All beer is illegal to minors and a HUGE majority of them are very interested in getting some of it.
Yep getting the same feeling. I'm sorry edz I was realy trying to give you a chance, but to be honest you're twisting back and forth from this will cause A to that wont cause A but this will cause Z to this wont cause Z, it's an endless cycle. Maybe it's because of the laws where you live that you feel what you say is correct, but in the case of the US it is very, very far off and not even part of planet reality.
I'm not talking in circles, you should really read what is written! Offcourse all beer is illegal to minors but is their illegal beer whatsover? If H would be made legal it would still be illegal for minors, correct or not? Therefor a new market is born and illegal heroine would still exist. if it is the new socalled refined or original H. Can't you guys see my point And offcourse you are agreeing with yo-yo since he/she agrees with you and not questioning you. Like i said if you can't prove with facts that H can be refined as the same as Real Heroine i can not give legalisation a chance. And refined H should be giving you the same high as non-refined H, if this is not possible legalisation has no chance whatso ever.
#1 There are all different forms of any hard drug such as H, depending on how it's made. It can be made stronger, safer, etc in a controlled setting than in some third world country with no regulation. This I would think wouldn't even be up for discussion. #2 I do get what you're saying on the minors issue, however the illegal black market would dwindle. You may have some trying to sell legally aquired H to minors, it would not create a new market though as it's already there. If anything it would decrease the sales to minors as if the adults and primary buyers are no longer buying those dealers are going to go into a different business to make $$$$ See prohibition in the US As far as agreeing with yo yo, doesn't realy have anything to do with that as I do see several instances in where you did change what you had previously stated.
Safer i agree but to make it less addictive and still giving the same amount of high as regular H i doubt it maybe i don't know something what you do know to make this possible, i don't know and therefor i would really like to understand your view on this and where you have based your oppinion upon that hcan be refined to a point that it can be made less addictive but still giving the same amount of high. Sure some part of them would choose this, and minors are still restricted to Regular H and not to that wonder H you are talking about. My apperancy of changing what i previously stated is probably because of my aversion to not to legalize regular H with that refined H you are talking about. Legalizing regular H is just plain stupid. Also when you should introduce this refined H, should it be sold or given? In your oppinion? In my oppinion if it's being sold you are really not doing anything helpfull really apart from supplying safer drugs.
I'll admit at the surface legalizing hard drugs sounds gay as hell! Even to me it does, but when you look into the reality of what comes out of the ban you can see many dangers that could be avoided if the criminals were not in charge of these toxic products. It may not be the exact same strength hi, but even coming close and much safer I'm sure the users would not mind one bit. Which the people who do not use it should also have an open mind on. Even if it's 1/2 the strength most will go to a legal source especially in the US. It's like Cuban Cigars, they are illegal for new imports, sure a few still get them but most cigar smokers do not go for them because of cost, availability and legal reasons. You cut off the $$$$ the dealers are not going to bother, they are going to find a different criminal enterprise to make $$$$ on. Again please see US prohibition. Yes it does sound stupid, see above. However when you take everything into account and not just the basic fear of it's bad and kills it's easier to see why it could very well be a better solution than in the US. I would have to say sold, giving it away would be even more stupid in my opinion. I do not say I have the answers to exactly how it could be done, but do believe it could be a far better solution. Maybe if you lived in the US and watched how much money we put into fighting this, the crime it brings from being illegal, etc you'd see it in a different light. Like the point brought up before about dirty needles, why do you think there are dirty needles? Primarily because of the substance being illegal, the law itself caused it not the drug.
Well hrblcantra, it seems you are at this point failing to respond to my question because you didn't mention anything about my quiry regarding how you based your oppinion on the ability to make H refined in such a manor it can be made less addictive and still giving the same high. And if it's 1/2 the strenght that is going to be then for sure users will not massively flock to this socalled refined H. And this whole project is doomed to fail anyways. So it's stupid to legalize original H and it's also a better solution for in the U.S.? Huh This sounds stupid and holds no grounds. So this solution that you have in mind is to let the goverment sell drugs? and also selling a infiriour product? LOL and how would the addicts pay for it? if they want the same high they have to buy the same product twice to have their inniatial high with one product that they had to buy before. I didn't brought anything up about dirty needles FYI but hey (not sure if you where refering this to me but...) and it's because people ending up on the streets that there are dirty needles on the street apart from the dumbasses that don't care about any other people and dropping their shit where they pleases to. All the costs would be calculated back in the product, this selling scheme isn't going to work. Legalizing regular H is stupid no matter how you twist it, you or anyone else hrblcantra. And offering paid legal ''refined'' H is also stupid. I've heard enough I'm out of this thread