20 elementary school children plus 6 adults shot dead by a guy with a gun

Earl - I notice you mentioned the Clackamas Mall shooting, but seemed not the least curious why someone so armed didnt effect more carnage than 2 dead, 1 wounded. No surprise you'd be unfamiliar with the reason, as the media seems anxious to skip any tale where a gun in the hand of an armed citizen was used for saving lives rather than taking them.

A guy with a CCW licensed weapon heard the shots at the mall and drew on the shooter. The shooter, noting his hoped for fish-in-a-barrel scenario was spoiled and not wishing to face oncoming capture or fire, retreaed from his shooting position, and ultimately decided he was cornered and took his own life.

The school shooting where the children died, like most mass killings, took place in a supposed "gun free zone". Why didnt that imaginary line make them safe? Maybe the sign wasnt big enough to deter the shooter who had already broken the law over 40 times before arrival that morning? He'd already committed murder, multiple gun thefts, theft of a vehicle, etc... But oddly he was gonna be stopped by a sign?

Perhaps we should install military grade gun free zone signs in Afghanistan to make our troops safe. That oughta disarm the Taliban and Al Qaida types.

Most shootings take place at gun free zones for a reason: the shooters are fucking cowards. Inevitably they crumble if confronted. The Pearl MS school shooting ended when a principal retrieved a firearm from his car and confronted the gunman. The Appalachian Law school shooter was held at bay by two guys that retrieved guns from their vehicles.

Yet in the coming days, we shall hear sanctimonious horse-shit about the need for "sensible gun laws", laws that will disarm the good citizens that have in many instances stopped shootings cold... from the same jackasses that got caught funelling guns to Mexican drug cartels. That makes a lotta sense... To liberals.

 

Just so you know Rob, I'm not for banning all guns. I'm for restoring balance on the issue in general. I don't have all the answers.

I know there are cases where having a gun can prevent worse harm. I also know around where I live having restrictions would probably save a lot of lives.

I'll tell you one thing. I never was in a gun fight but I was in a violent mob fight. Anyone could be hurt from any corner at any time. Punches and sticks smacking at you from any direction. All those soldiers in fire fights say the same thing. Its chaos and dangerous.

Anyone thinking having everyone armed is off their rocker.

 

One thing the shooters seem to have in common at these events
is that no matter how well armed and how much body armor theyve got, they fold like a card table when met with a gun. Doesnt matter that they're better armed.

It has been shown time and again... The videos are posted in this forum... The PC cafe in florida where a 72 yr old man returned fire and two youths in their prime ran like their ass was afire... The old lady in the jewelry shop that returned fire at 5 intruders and they looked like the Keystone cops running over each other getting out. The shooting in Pearl MS, the Appalachian law school, the Clackamas Mall (and there the citizen never fired a shot cause he didnt have a clear shot without potential collateral damage, but the bad guy was still stopped).

If they stop as soon as confronted with a weapon, i say the sooner someone brings a weapon to bear, the better. We dont have a lot of history showing these shooters standing and fighting after a gun shows up, do we?

Everyone armed?
I havent suggested everyone be armed. Some people are too afraid or too overall unsuited... But if those that are willing to take training are armed (example, willing teachers and admins at schools)... You could stop this school shooting bs.

 

Rob, I think you explained it exactly in Connecticut Shooting Tragedy

Excellent post.

 

So, the kid comes from a broken family and there were warning signs and according to the media all we have to worry about are:

1.) HIS mental health.
2.) Gun control.

Why not start promoting the sanctity of marriage and family once again in the country?


queue the rage

 

Thanks Rebecca. Personally, i believe ultimately the long term answer is to quit raising godless heathen children who are insensitive to the wants and needs of anyone other than themselves and desensitized to violence. As the twig is bent, so grows the tree, and after a certain point if they were not raised straight and true they are seriously twisted and totally unretrainable.

That said, everyone is looking for a quick fix, a law that somehow mechanically undoes the decades we've invested in training children to be jackals. Never mind the obvious evidence that we have had weapons in civilian hands for a century that could do exactly what's happening in these school shootings or worse... Let's ignore the root cause and address the symptom.

It is not a coincidence that despite having the technology to rapidly murder people for over 100 years, the shootings started after we banned God from schools and the town square. Suddenly we act shocked that children raised without traditional values do not behave in the same manner as their forebears. [insert fake shocked face]

 

Was talking about this with my wife and her mother earlier today.

So so true...

 

So the mother was a gun nut and a survivalist with four automatic handguns, a semi automatic rifle and other guns. Obviously all her guns didn't save her life as a starting point. The guns were stolen from her, the bad bloke broke through security at the school (your elementary schools need security!!! WTF) and 20 children lost their lives.



And you dicks are defending your right to have guns. No wonder you are regarded as a nation of idiots.

 

I'd ask for a refund. Screaming fire in a crowded theater is perfectly legal.

What I find concerning is when people refer to those who defend their constitutional rights as extremists. There is no balance to be struck with those who would strip you of your rights.

Still waiting on your proposal to prevent such a tragedy from happening again that doesn't include a ban on firearms. I notice the president wasted no time capitalizing on and politicizing the death of these young children. The guy makes my skin crawl.

 

You must get different news in Australia. There was nothing in our papers about machine pistols or "Automatic handguns" of any type.

Oh the irony. Though we don't regard Australia as a nation of idiots, your posts go a long way to putting a stake in the ground for that reputation. Keep up the good work?

 

Thanks for the kind words Bob, and I think I speak for all of us when I suggest you go fuck yourself. Report that, asshole. Rest of us are having a civilized discussion. Not your forte I guess.

Of course, someone is welcome to try to harm me with my own weapon, but he'd have to beat me to death with it, cause it'd be empty before he reached me. Heck, if he can take that many slugs and still keep coming he deserves to win.

Incidentally, for those who think having armed teachers in school would create a wild west environment... there's a school district in Texas that passed a rule allowing teachers to carry. That was over four years ago. I don't recall hearing of a shooting there yet. See http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,404721,00.html

 

That black man - he gonna come and take your farken guns.

 

Like I said, the rest of us are having a civilized discussion. Not your forte I guess.

You can always tell when a liberal's losing a discussion... name-calling commences and the race card comes out. Nice work.

 

The preacher declaring God saved that lone girl survivor was pretty stupid. What he's saying without actually saying is God hated the rest of the class. Imbecilic comment really.

Added: Australia fought against our changing gun laws big time too. Many jumped on the bandwagon, even your NRA became involved. The howls went out "then only the crims will have guns" et al. But the PM, who many despised at the time, went ahead and changed them anyway.

Many, me included, though I didn't own a gun, believed it was all a great big conspiracy by our despised PM to let government tyranise the nation and do what they want to us without fear. It was scary to think we couldn't own a gun if needed. This proved untrue as we could go and get a gun anytime if we showed a need for it, and our government is no more tyrannical than yours at present.

15 years later, we never hear of this shit happening here, and indeed feel privileged this tragic event hasn't been repeated over and over as it was before then. We gaze in wonderment I guess, when it does happen, anywhere around the world, that someone could even contemplate doing this to begin with.

Today I 100% agree it was the best thing that he could ever have done. In fact is the only good thing we remember him for. Unfortunately it now serves as a reminder of my most hated PM every time we hear of another massacre and count our lucky stars it wasn't here.

I see a parallell is there between a Democratic leader taking on the Republicans. Howard had control of both houses here so it was easier for him to do that. Obama hasn't got a hope of changing laws by himself. Without control of both houses it will likely be impossible.

I see videos of the cops shooting what I would consider seemingly harmless Americans often, just search out "cops shooting crims" on YouTube to see for yourself, and I think the fact that you all can carry guns makes the police, who have no idea whether you're carrying or not, shoot first and ask questions later erring on the side of caution. And who can blame them?

Whilst laws allow every man and his dog to carry I think it degrades society where everyone's living on the edge.

When you look at the list this year alone it makes me think it's only going to get worse "just friggin do it".

December 11, 2012. On Tuesday, 22-year-old Jacob Tyler Roberts killed 2 people and himself with a stolen rifle in Clackamas Town Center, Oregon. His motive is unknown.

September 27, 2012. Five were shot to death by 36-year-old Andrew Engeldinger at Accent Signage Systems in Minneapolis, MN. Three others were wounded. Engeldinger went on a rampage after losing his job, ultimately killing himself.

August 5, 2012. Six Sikh temple members were killed when 40-year-old US Army veteran Wade Michael Page opened fire in a gurdwara in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Four others were injured, and Page killed himself.

July 20, 2012. During the midnight premiere of The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, CO, 24-year-old James Holmes killed 12 people and wounded 58. Holmes was arrested outside the theater.

May 29, 2012. Ian Stawicki opened fire on Cafe Racer Espresso in Seattle, WA, killing 5 and himself after a citywide manhunt.

April 6, 2012. Jake England, 19, and Alvin Watts, 32, shot 5 black men in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in racially motivated shooting spree. Three died.

April 2, 2012. A former student, 43-year-old One L. Goh killed 7 people at Oikos University, a Korean Christian college in Oakland, CA. The shooting was the sixth-deadliest school massacre in the US and the deadliest attack on a school since the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre.

 

Awesome

Going with my beliefs that real men or women don't need a gun. That makes you the 6,453,452,232nd bravest person on earth. I'll send you a sticker for your hoss.

Show on the television set tonight helped explain a few things about America/God/Guns. So apparently the people living in larger cities run with the no guns stuff but people who live in the backwards States believe that every person should carry a gun and make the country safe. Maybe you should divide the country North/South or East/West or something.

Just a thought.

 

I still haven't seen any remorse from the defenders of guns about the 20 dead children, let alone the adults. Extremists are like that. They become desensitized to the welfare of others.

@obamanation. you obviously didn't read what I precisely said, and you are obviously showing your ignorance about constitutional law or what was taught around the nation for years and years. Thanks for entertaining us with your lack of knowledge and opinions steeped in bias.

In DC you have gang shootings. bullets whiz everywhere and innocent people are killed and hurt. there is nothing good about arming those people nor does it restrict or limit violence. The same occurs in other inner cities across the country. those same m' f'rs take those guns out of the ghetto and shoot and kill others. There is nothing helpful about having a lot of people armed. Not where I live and not in cities.

For all those who like free access to guns move to Syria. Scenic views, nice history, a lot of peace and quiet and free access to guns.

 

onation: There is something off balance and mentally disturbed by those that claim that the president is politicizing tragedy. It is tragic. It merits speaking about it.

The reason it is political is that over the recent years access to all guns has become increasingly easy. The industry has become protected by the law and even reasonable controls on people accessing guns have been weakened. If one thinks people are the problem then make it harder for people to access guns. Make them go through rigorous restrictions.

The right wing has politicized guns to the extent that legislators passed a florida state law to ban doctors from warning kids about guns: Kids killing themselves with their parents guns is a deadly issue. The Florida extremists protectors of the gun interests wanted to muzzle doctors: http://childrenshospitalblog.org/florida-doctors-and-questions-about-guns-whats-going-on/

That is politicizing guns.

but this is tragedy. It's a topic that merits conversation. The President is correct to deal with it. Parents want it addressed. The gun interests want nobody to discuss it.

The extreme right wing has taken several large topics off the political agenda: Guns, global warming and taxes. Politicians mostly are afraid to deal with these topics.

Then huge problems occur. The right wing fumes, threatens and twists reality. Guns and nuts are deadly. Deal with it.

 

Keep throwing around the word, to make what your saying seem sensible.. Good job!

So the right are is made of "extremists". The left consists of people that call the constitution "just a piece of paper" and call the bible "a book of paper". Who are the crazy ones?

Do you know everyone in this thread personally?

What a moronic comment. Take a deep breathe, breathe a bit and THINK before you post things like this.

+1



Anyone that thinks the issue solely points to gun control, seriously needs to get their brain checked out.

Our priorities in this country are seriously screwed.

 

gr: you don't like being called an extremist? Complain to long time republicans and conservatives who have given the party the label.

Mike Lofgren who served 28 years in the house as a GOP aide and 16 years as a senior aiide, watching his own party evolve had this to say in a question and answer:

 

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2012/1...and-detroit-murder-rates-show-stark-contrast/