20 elementary school children plus 6 adults shot dead by a guy with a gun

I thought you were referring to physically protecting my guns from kids getting to them. As for what I am doing to help protect my beliefs, I am a member of the NRA which is the strongest 2nd amendment advocate in the world. I subscribe, recommend, and share news stories and YouTube videos about the 2nd amendment to help get them exposure. And I am always on DigitalPoint willing to have a nice debate

 

It's not just about preaching to the converted (or unconvertable as in my case), what about educating people on keeping their guns safe? Campaigning for better mental healthcare for kids? It might make your case sound a little less 'Your not taking my guns' and more 'ok there is a problem here, how can we deal with it so everyone is happy AND safe?'
Just a thought.

 

If you were bright enough to read further back in the thread you'd know I was in the discussion well before you were, sweetpea.

That doesn't mean I care to apologize for rights we hold to some kid across the water that thinks we just have too many. You girls (and that includes the supposed "men" in your country) can handle it however you want on your side of the pond.

I don't bother interjecting my 2 cents on how aussies and brits handle their internal business... but they seem to think we care about their opinion of how we should run ours.

 

Mental health might need addressing however it seems many of you live in a society where the minimum wage keeps parents working too much to look after their kids. How do you find the time to help them grow up in a happy and healthy environment if you're chained to a lowly-paid position most of the time? Your $8 minimum wage sucks imho and plays a major part of the work/life balance. Many parents might have the love for their kids but can't find the time to show them.
One of our trusted current affairs programs (4corners) recently stated there's now 47.5 million ppl in the US on the poverty line. That's incredible imho.
PS: Australia's minimum wage is $15 and right now our $$ are worth more than the $US.

 

If someone only earns minimum wage, maybe they shouldn't be having children? If they don't like their minimum wage job, maybe they should gain some skills necessary to get positions that pay more? I really can't feel sorry for a family that chooses to have children yet doesn't possess the means to properly raise them. If you are going to bring a life into the world, you should raise it how you would want to be raised. If you work at McDonalds making minimum wage, it's probably not the best time to have a child. Accidents do happen, but anyone who chooses to have sex (even with birth control) knows the risk involved. Even accidental pregnancy is preventable and if it happens you need to face the consequences of your actions.

It just makes me sick to hear some of the stories. I personally know a family that accidentally had one child while the mother was in high school. The couple got married shortly after graduation. The father has a decent job, the mother doesn't work. They continued to have children on purpose, adding two more to their family. They cannot afford the health insurance for their kids, so they are now on government assistance Medicaid. My question is, why would you continue to have children if you know you cannot afford health insurance for them? On top of that, they quality for food stamps as well. These government programs are not meant to be lifestyles, they are temporary relief. While the kids do need this coverage and food, the parents should not have purposely had 2 more children to add to the system that they cannot afford. You would think since they are on government assistance that they are poor, yet they both drive brand new cars and own a home.

 

But you have to take into consideration that the cost of living is higher in Australia as well. Higher minimum wage = higher cost of items. When companies need to pay more to hire workers, they hit the consumers with the increased cost. For example, New York City is one of the most expensive places to live in the US, yet it is still around 25% less expensive than Sydney. A city like Kansas City, MO is nearly 60% cheaper to live in than Sydney. And the more rural you get, the less expensive. Here in my town, $8 minimum wage is probably equal to your $15 minimum wage because of the living costs.

 

Loaf of bread at Coles $1. Milk $2 for 2 litres. Sausages $4 for about 9. Margarine $2 500g. Bananas currently $3kg. Tomatoes $4 per kg. McDonald's no idea but bloody dear last time I was there. Beef ranges from $7 for mince to $30 for family-size roast. Potatoes from $1 to $5 a kg.
Of course there are cheap-discount shops all over the place where things are cheaper again.
Rent for average houses range from about $175 to $350pw.
Petrol around $1.35 a litre fluctuates to around $1.55.
Car rego, I just paid $540 for 1 year includes 3rd party (that has doubled in last 10yrs).
New 'average' cars range from $12,000-30,000.
Johny Walker $30-$35. Beer carton about the same.
I bought a 3br home for 170k last year.
How does that compare?

 

Not my numbers, just researched the CPI of various cities: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...jsp?country1=Australia&country2=United+States

You can throw prices at me all you want but from the stats your government makes available, the average cost to live in Australia is more than the average here in the US.

 

I completely agree, sometimes it is circumstances which dictate how people live, as in my case. I have now made te decision to work from home as my youngest 2 are now at school, this gives me the freedom to be there for my kids when they get home from school. I still rely on help from the State, to an extent but this is only while I am building my business and increasing my income.

@r3dt@rget, You seem to enjoy throwing problems and blame at the feet of others. You say that the gun problem exist because kids grow up in poverty so parents should work, parents who work are the problem because they are not around enough for their kids and don't notice the underlying problems. So I ask you again, what is the answer?

 

I must have missed your previous posts, having the kids around is somewhat of a distraction at times which is why I was here and actually 'working'. I, therefore, retract my previous statement.
I do not expect you to apologise for something you believe in or the rights afforded you by your country, but please do not assume to know how I think. I actually believe that there should be at least one more *right* in America (and here in fact) and that would be the right to marry regardless of sexual orientation (Proposition 8, I believe).
What, in your opinion, makes a man a man? What makes you more of a man than the men in my country? The fact that you own a gun? Well, in my opinion that actually makes you less of a man.
I don't think that you care about my opinion, actually I don't think you care about anyones opinion unless it is the same as yours, but as we are on a debate forum, which happens to be global, that in itself makes my opinion valid. If you dont like my opinion then please feel free to not read my posts, I promise not to lose any sleep over it.

 

As a reminder, there is a discussion on same sex marriage going on HERE.

The gun control debate has nothing to do with whether it's manly or not.

 

More giggling from Biden right before giving the dumbest answer / advice ever.

"Go outside and fire off 2 shots".. Right... I didn't realize that most intruders made a phone call before breaking in to a house.

 

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/national_world&id=9004467

 

Thank you for pointing out the discussion thread which I started. I mentioned Prop. 8 to make the point that I am not against people having rights.
I am fully aware that guns dont make you manly, nor do the lack of guns make you less so, that was exactly my point. UK men are no less manly because they dont carry guns just as you guys are no more manly because you do.

 

Another non-sequitur. Gay marriage has something to do with gun control because we think carrying a gun makes you more manly, and reserving state marriage licenses for people who raise children makes our men more manly?

Its bad enough you feel the need to discuss our laws, but honestly, couldn't you come to the table with a reasonable argument, or at least some information not based on insanity?

By the way, I am completely shocked to find you live at home on government assistance. Shocked!

@r3dt@rget Intertesting link on cost of living. I have to say, I haven't considered the minimum wage subject to present a well informed opinion on either side. The idea that it would be directly tied, if not in a causal relationship with the cost of living would not come as any surprise to me.

 

This is where the *manliness* debate started, maybe I misread but the impliction here seems to be that British men are not manly, and as this is a debate about guns I assumed that this was the cause of the lack of manliness in England.

 

The fact that I live with government assistance has no bearing on my opinions, this was stated to point out that sometimes things happen which are beyond our control. My situation was such that it was better for me to be a single parent than live with a violent drunk, due to the ages of my children it was impractical for me to work until they were at school due to the cost of childcare. I am now working (at home) but whilst I build the business I would have no income. Are you really suggesting my children should starve? Or maybe I should have stayed with my ex, as that would have ensured a stable family environment.
If you have a copy of the book 'How to see the future and live your life accordingly' please feel free to share it, Im sure there would be many people who could benefit from such insight.

 

And who is to blame? Me? Because I own a gun? Is it my fault sandy hook happened? Or is it the failure of a parent to keep her weapons secure, the failure of a mental health system that doesn't allow parents to be in control of their mentally ill childs care past 18? And you put the gun problem on "the gun" instead of talking about the real problems. Let me ask you again, who is responsible for a parents children? Who is responsible for making sure they have food, proper education, clothing, a sense of right and wrong? It sure as hell isn't the government.

I think you are completely missing my point. It is that government is not the answer when it all comes down to people making bad choices. You used the example of a child getting daddies gun and bringing it to school. That is not a government problem, it's a parenting problem that cannot be solved with laws (while still maintaining rights for everyone else). I mentioned kids being brought up in poverty which leads to crime, and that is not a government problem that is a parenting problem.

 

You criticise parents for not working and relying on handouts on the one hand, and yet parents who aren't there for their kids, as they are too busy working and providing for them, are also the problem because they don't notice when there is an underlying issue with their kids. Kind of a vicious circle then huh!

 

Ya you are damn right I do. If you are not working you better have a good reason for it. If you are not working, with kids, and getting handouts from the government, why the hell did you have kids? People fall on rough times, so maybe they had kids but got laid off in the recession, but there is a little bit of common sense here if you decide to have kids when you know you can't afford it.

As far as working, a standard work week is 40 hours. There is plenty of time with the kids. Working is no excuse for not cooking dinner for them, spending time with them on the weekends, and actually being involved in their lives. And im not talking about normal parents, I talking about the parents who have 6 kids from 5 different dads, that let their kids roam the streets at night no caring what they do, who they hang out with, and what kind of trouble they get it. The kids that don't care about school because they are more troubled at home. The kids that find crime and gangs get them things they want because they can steal. Selling drugs is good money, and they don't have any, so it is another way to get what they want. I am talking about these parents.