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20 elementary school children plus 6 adults shot dead by a guy with a gun

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by earlpearl, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #261
    Can someone translate what she was saying?? I didn't understand any of it.
    SEMrush

     
    debunked, Feb 12, 2013 IP
    SEMrush
  2. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #262
    As of 2/12/2013 Slate magazine's daily accounting of gun deaths as reported by local media has reached 1774 people killed since the tragedy at Newtown Ct, on 12/14/12. In less than 2 months virtually as many Americans in the 50 states have died by gun shot as all the soldiers in Afghanistan in 12 years of war. That is beyond astounding. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._death_since_newtown_sandy_hook_shooting.html

    Yesterday a 4 year old shot himself dead with a gun in Memphis, Tennessee: Its one of the many articles, each one detailing a death by gun shot: http://www.wmctv.com/story/21112300/police-4-year-old-killed-playing-with-gun

    Meanwhile, the NRA is actively promoting laws in various states to prohibit doctors, and specifically speaking about the dangers of guns to families of little children.

    The NRA is ACTIVELY promoting the spread of this legislation: Such a law was passed in Florida on June 2, 2011.


    That is the law and that was the effort by the NRA lobbyists. Meanwhile the NRA has sponsored similar legislation in
    In Florida meanwhile the following has transpired:
    The above quotes are from an article in Slate about these laws that the NRA is sponsoring around the country, essentially to further protect the gun industry and neuter the advice and commentary from the medical industry: http://www.slate.com/articles/healt..._rules_and_the_cdc_aca_and_states.single.html

    While the folks blindly supporting the interests of the gun lobby are going on and on about Piers Morgan, the gun lobby has effectively lobbied and pushed the gun industry into a position where they can't be sued, and they are pushing what are the most maniacal laws under consideration, as the above article demonstrates.

    Of course 20 little kids in a school were blasted into kingdom come by a maniac with a gun....and the gun industry simply wants to promote more guns, and restrict any kind of the most common sense actions to take care of folks.

    Its a sad commentary
     
    earlpearl, Feb 12, 2013 IP
  3. r3dt@rget

    r3dt@rget Well-Known Member

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    #263
    Only 1774 in 2 months? If this trend continues, only around 10,000 people will be killed with a gun this year. That is down from previous years. Looks like we are heading in the right direction.

    That law protects the privacy of patients. It prohibits doctors from harassing patients. Why does a doctor need to know if you have a gun? Remember, guns are inanimate objects. They can't kill anyone unless a person pulls the trigger. They are no more dangerous sitting around a toddler than knifes, electrical outlets, chemicals, etc. It's the parents responsibility to keep their child safe, not the governments. Any competent parent already knows guns are dangerous. And if you let your child play with a gun and they get killed, manslaughter charges should follow.

    So you take away the gun from a maniac, are they still a maniac? Guns protect people from maniacs.

    [​IMG]
     
    r3dt@rget, Feb 12, 2013 IP
  4. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #264
    When it comes to health and treatment doctors are supposed to ask questions: Do you have allergies, do you smoke, your families health history, age, sexual activities, do you drink, what medications do you take? etc etc. Without asking questions doctors can mistreat people. Its a fundamental part of the medical process:

    Here is the essence of your response:


    ...and here is the essence of a pro gun /anti doctor/anti little kid law proposed in West Virginia:

    the NRA in its most radical element simply is against health and for guns to the extent that it would punish, fine, and revoke a doctor's license for asking questions.

    The essence of the NRA is to take us to the most horrendous examples of a chicken shit tyranny where guns are king and everything else is secondary.

    Its an astonishing example of extremism at its worst.
     
    earlpearl, Feb 13, 2013 IP
  5. r3dt@rget

    r3dt@rget Well-Known Member

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    #265
    Allergies, smoking, family history, etc. are all medical issues that can effect your health. Whether an individual chooses to own a gun is not medical information and has no value to the treatment of a patient.

    The NRA is 5 million Americans who pay money for an organization to fight for what they believe in. Millions more stand with the NRA but are not members. You always refer to the NRA as some big, bad lobbyist scum, yet the NRA is made up of good, hard working people who realize that without the 2nd amendment, none of the others are protected.

    And how can you call anyone extremists? Look at your posts. You can't reply without calling gun owners anti-children. That's probably the most childish description I have heard. Liberalism at it's finest.
     
    r3dt@rget, Feb 13, 2013 IP
  6. grpaul

    grpaul Well-Known Member

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    #266
    Speaking of children and people acting like extremists.. The crap that Obama pulled last night was disgraceful. Not surprising, but disgraceful nonetheless.

    Can't make a single point, or give a speech without acting like a divisive extremist moron.

    The reasons for posting the Piers Morgan (and other) interviews, is because of the points that the people being interviewed make. But you, being the liberal robot that you are, probably wouldn't be willing to actually watch the videos.

    It's ok though, hopefully one day, you'll start thinking for yourself.

    ---------------------------------------
    Side note:

    It's very sad that you can't admit that the guns should have been LOCKED UP IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    It's even MORE sad that people like yourself can't even admit that the children would have been more safe if a teacher or 2, or 3 or 10 had been armed.

    But that takes some some of thinking process.. Something the left isn't capable of doing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013
    grpaul, Feb 13, 2013 IP
  7. grpaul

    grpaul Well-Known Member

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    #267
    grpaul, Feb 14, 2013 IP
  8. Corwin

    Corwin Well-Known Member

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    #268
    So, can you explain how would a doctor would treat someone who owns a gun, different than someone who doesn't have a gun? Would the doctor change a prescription? Use a different bandage? Use a different medical test? How would it affect the patient's bill?

    Can you explain a medical condition where owning a gun would make a difference in the doctor's diagnosis? Can you please give an example? Any example?
     
    Corwin, Feb 14, 2013 IP
    grpaul likes this.
  9. Bushranger

    Bushranger Well-Known Member

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    #269
    Depression was the first thing that came to my mind. It could "possibly" increase the chances of suicide. Though I have no facts at hand to back that up.

    FTR: I have stepped out of the debate and was just responding to the question. It is up to you to work out what's best for your country.
     
    Bushranger, Feb 14, 2013 IP
  10. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #270
    It appears from the comments above the case can be made that the current examples of extremist/teapartiers would probably be smart to leave parenting to other people.

    Pediatricians treat children and advise, discuss, and explain things to parents. They don't treat adults, but they do advise adults how to better care for their little babies.

    The teaparty extremists are currently of the position that doctors should be banned from asking if there are guns in the house where new little babies and little kids live. They moreover believe in the NRA sponsored legislation that would fine, punish, and possibly remove doctors licenses for practicing medicine for asking this question.

    At this point, the tea partiers have moved into the realm of the sickest examples of a chicken shit banana republic type of tin horn tyranny as they believe that a doctor merits punishment for asking a question. I suppose they want to shove all doctors into prisons, might as well shove all the people without guns in their homes into prisons also.

    Its no wonder that people who were once considered Republicans: people who actually contributed to the founding of the heritage foundation now declare that the GOP of today and its tea party mafia are extremists.

    When I use the term extremists I'm only taking the milder form of reproof from people who were once leading conservative actors and thinkers.

    The tea party today has all the markings of a crazed dictatorship.
     
    earlpearl, Feb 15, 2013 IP
  11. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #271
    You know Dave, there is real evidence to indicate that watching too much Rachel Maddow can be hazardous to your mental health. Based on the above statement, I can definitely confirm that it has adverse effects on your general knowledge.

    Tea Party people are about personal freedom, not the elimination of personal freedom. For instance, doctors are perfectly welcome to ask if there are guns in the house. Those rights are guaranteed to them by the first amendment. My response to such a question would also be protected by the first amendment, where I tell the doctor it is none of his f*cking business. I would then exercise another one of my individual freedoms by walking out the door and finding another doctor who hasn't made invasion of my privacy on behalf of the government part of his practice.

    What would, however, be something a Tea Partier could get behind is legislation opposing any other legislation that would MANDATE a doctor to ask such questions as a prerequisite to treatment. What I would also be behind are lawsuits against the government and doctors who decide to make such an invasion of privacy a prerequisite to their services all on their own.

    You can thank Dubya for that. Big government Republicans are all going to look at the Tea Party as extremists because, on the fiscal front, there is nothing that separates them from the Democrats. I'm sure the Whigs were singing the same tune before they became a thing of the past, and yet somehow, the Union continued along nicely and the world didn't come to an end.


    [edit] By the way, you should read the resumes of some of the people championing Tea Party principals. There are lots of highly educated, highly knowledgeable Democratic appointees in that wood pile. I don''t know many people that would consider Senator Simpson or Senator Bowles extremists, outside of the lunatic who formed their commission and ignored it's advice.


    I would say the markings of a dictatorship are more applicable to the guy who wrote the legal brief justifying the assassination of American citizens via drone stroke without habeus corpus, a trial, a conviction, and a court ordered sentence to death. I'm sure you agree, though you will never admit it on this forum.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
    Obamanation, Feb 15, 2013 IP
  12. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #272
    ...at the extremes: Here is where the tea party/gun supporters are going:


    NRA/tea party fanatics are looking to establish laws across the states that would create the worst examples of freedom crushing dictatorships...all on behalf of gun manufacturers.
     
    earlpearl, Feb 15, 2013 IP
  13. r3dt@rget

    r3dt@rget Well-Known Member

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    #273
    Your arguments are so hypocritical I cannot even begin to reason with you. You believe that making a law preventing doctors from harassing patients about gun ownership is an example of freedom crushing, yet you believe it's just fine to strip the 2nd amendment away from people by banning certain types of weapons for cosmetic features. A law that turns millions of law abiding citizens into criminals simply for owning a semi-automatic weapon is just fine to you, but a law that tells doctors they cannot harass a patient about gun ownership is a clear form of a dictatorship. And despite what you read on your left wing blogs, the law doesn't punish doctors just because they ask questions. It prevents them from harassing patients about their gun ownership.
     
    r3dt@rget, Feb 15, 2013 IP
  14. grpaul

    grpaul Well-Known Member

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    #274
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Makes perfect sense..


    Would you not point the blame towards, sh*tty parenting, video games, the media, violent shows / movies?


    How exactly can you blame the NRA / Tea Party for the Newtown incident?
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
    grpaul, Feb 15, 2013 IP
  15. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #275
    @ R2D2

    @ONation: about the only time I ever see Rachel Maddow is when I stop off for a late lunch at a place where the owner likes MSNBC. (I think msnbc and fox are pretty much the ying and yang of right and left wing tv. Its not where I want my facts.) do you have a poster of her on your wall of idols?

    Now if you want to do this....


    that is fine. I would also suggest that if you told him you had a big loaded gun in the house in easy reach of anyone including a little child....and nothing the doc might say is going to change your attitude or actions....the doc might be free to tell you he doesn't want to provide treatment...or can say something like...."okay I warnded you...and then move on."

    In neither case is the doc subject to a fine or punishment for asking the question. In the extreme example though the tea party and the NRA want to penalize the doc for asking the question. That element of the law is at the extreme of oppression.

    as to these comments, o-nation:


    As I recall o-nation if Dubya burbed you supported it. Dubya did or said something you supported it.

    I guess in your own words you are responsible for driving folks out of the GOP.

    In fact as you know from the 2008 election a lot of people voted for Obama because after all...things were pretty f*cked up under Dubya: We were mid way through the worst recession in modern history, and we had been fighting two wars interminably for years and years without resolution. (and that is only half the problems dubya left us.

    Sure he drove out a lot of people from the GOP for poor performance, which you 150% supported.

    but its been in the last 4 years that known thinkers and speakers on the GOP side have articulated how extreme and different the GOP has become. Mike Lofgren a lifelong staffer to the house and senate budget committees and before he quit the long term senior budget analyst on defense issues to the GOP left the party and described the GOP as an "apocalyptic cult" following the debt limit crisis of 2011 created by the tea party. Long after Dubya left. Mickey Edwards a former GOP congressman from Oklahoma and a founding trustee of the heritage association describes the current state of the GOP in similar terms.

    That is all post 2009 when the GOP went crazy rogue.

    Me calling the GOP extremist is mild compared to the language of Mike Lofgren who watched his own party go absolutely batshit nuts.


    ....and as you might guess I could give a rat's @ss about ACLU type freedom issues with Obama going after al queda types by drone, as I could give a rats @ss by Bush also going after al queda types subsequent to 9/11. You have to do what you have to do to root out the killers before they come and blow you up to smithereens.

    You on the other hand now would probably welcome an al queda type wearing a TNT vest into your home and offer him the good scotch before taking a mutual trip to virgin heaven with him.
     
    earlpearl, Feb 15, 2013 IP
  16. r3dt@rget

    r3dt@rget Well-Known Member

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    #276

    http://www.drgo.us/?tag=rick-scott
     
    r3dt@rget, Feb 15, 2013 IP
  17. Corwin

    Corwin Well-Known Member

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    #277
    Seriously, what color is the sky in your world? Where do you get this bullshit from? Did Elvis tell you this?
     
    Corwin, Feb 16, 2013 IP
  18. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #278
    No, I keep it in my drawer of spank posters, next to the posters of Madalene Albright, Janet Reno, Hilary Clinton, Christine O'Donnell, Roseane Barr, and Nancy Pelosi.

    If my doc used the word "Warnded", I would definitely be moving on anyway.

    No, but he is subject to poverty and unemployment. A doc who is stupid enough to ask those questions(As the lefties so desire) is just about as stupid as a guy who answers the question by stating he stores his unsecured and loaded weapons within easy reach of his four year old child.

    You have got to back off the sauce man. I've been around this forum a long time, but not that long, so your memories are obviously a fiction. If you'll recall, I joined this forum as an avid Obama supporter, not an avid Bush supporter.

    Yes they were. Bush's popularity was down near 25%. You don't get that low because everyone suddenly decided they are a liberal. You get that low by losing the support of half the people who voted for you. That half are what are more commonly called the Tea Party, though there are a fair number of lefties and libertarians in their numbers as well.

    The rest of your diatribe was a load of horse excrement. Seriously. Who cares about the opinion of Mike Lofgren, Arlin Specter, or any other politician about the state of the party. Its like asking the head of the teachers union whether Unions are good for educational outcomes. The answer you are going to get is predetermined and not heavily grounded in fact. These people make a living from staying in office, or remaining relevant, not based on the successful outcome of the implementation of their ideas. They will say quite literally anything. It would not surprise me at all to see Dick Morris become a permanent guest speaker on CNN.

    The facts are fairly straightforward. After Bush's reign of profligate spending and growth of government, Republicans lost a lot of their base, and most of the middle. They are a fractured party. Practically none of these people joined the Democrats. It is in the interests of the hard core Bush Republicans that remain to call the large chunk of their base that abandoned them "Extremists", every bit as it is in the interests of the Democratic base. They are facing extinction.

    Obama has capitalized on this fractured party twice now, but outside the beltway, we are kicking ass and taking names. Have a look at how many states have done away with unions in the the last four years. Have a look at how many states have written their own illegal immigration laws.

    At the national level, it is going to take some time to unify the party (purge the fiscal lefties). I guess on that front, we should thank Obama. Were he not such a retard, he would have played the center, captured a good portion of those in the middle and the right, and run a successful government. Instead, he went divisive and hard left, leaving the road wide open for a populist movement to throw him, and his pack of socialists out of office. Thanks?


    There are a myriad of things that could be done without torching the constitution. Securing the border and profiling at airport security would go a long way to defending the interior of the country. Expanded use of drones and the CIA for intelligence gathering would be useful abroad.


    If I recall correctly, the big complaint the left had about Bush was the never ending undeclared overseas wars. Now that Obama has stepped on the gas for those wars, suddenly you and your pals have no complaints. Here is another idea. Declare war. Declare war on Pakistan, commit the troops, the drones, the planes, and go fix the problem properly. Do you honestly think every terrorist we kill over there does not have another 10 Allah worshiping idiots stepping in to fill his shoes, holding a picture of his drone killed predecessor against his chest as his Martyr idol (in much the same way you carry around Ed Shultz's photo)?
     
    Obamanation, Feb 16, 2013 IP
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  19. r3dt@rget

    r3dt@rget Well-Known Member

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    #279
    Well it is really no surprise. I brought this up in an earlier post, about how guns are the "political trend" this year. Using a tragic situation as a catapult to launch all these gun control laws is pathetic. It's almost like the DNC flipped a switch and activated all their mindless drones to suddenly hate guns and anyone who owns or supports them. Even here in Missouri, a conservative state, state lawmakers from St Louis have proposed legislation that bans assault weapons and forces current owners to either sell them out of state or turn them into the state to be "disposed of". It's amazing that we never heard this talk during the election, only recently do the liberals try to propose 2nd amendment killing legislation. They won a 2nd term in the white house and kept the senate for another 2 years. They are going to shove every piece of progressive legislation down america's throat while they still can. And as you can see by earls ramblings, they don't have any evidence or facts to back up their claims about weapons. They simply call you a child killer and try to emotionally weaken your position on guns. It is the most childish form of debate. You hate kids because you own an assault rifle. Don't you feel sorry for the kids that died? Why do you support gun rights since kids died? And yet as I have proved in previous posts, if liberals really cared about saving lives they would look at alcohol, drugs, driving, etc. and they would find issues that kill more than guns. But they don't care about that because it isn't the political trend right now.
     
    r3dt@rget, Feb 19, 2013 IP
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  20. Bushranger

    Bushranger Well-Known Member

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    #280
    That like button is cool. There should also be dislike. Better an agree and disagree instead imho.

    @r3dt@rget - Even if they're wholly wrong doesn't the fact they believe the gun caused the tragic incident provide them with a good enough reason to use it in their arguments against guns? Surely you need to use it in your side of the argument too.

    If that's what both sides are really trying to stop from happening again. Point to each tragedy and tell fellow Americans how having even more guns would have stopped it. Avoiding or ignoring the deaths doesn't make them go away but confronting them with reasonable arguments might.

    I can't see any reason one would not bring up seemingly endless tragedies every time, unless one wants to avoid the facts of course. I think it is best to use real situations where possible in order to make your argument either way.
     
    Bushranger, Feb 20, 2013 IP