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20 elementary school children plus 6 adults shot dead by a guy with a gun

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by earlpearl, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. #1
    And the horrors with people with weapons essentially unchecked goes on: http://www.courant.com/news/connect...hook-school-shooting-20121214,0,5043872.story

    Mass shootings continue unabated in the US. Just the day or two before another 3 were shot in a mall in Oregon by another m'fer with a gun.
    http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2012/12/at-least-2-killed-in-shooting-at-clackamas-town-center/

    Politicians will not deal with these consistently recurring tragic situations.

    The simple fact is that the US has made no significant effort to stem these tragedies that occur week after week, month after month, year after year.

    You are a kid in a school. A dangerous crazy m' f'r with a gun can kill you. You are in a mall or a theater, a crazy m'f'er with a gun can kill you.

    The homicide rate in the US is dramatically higher than in comparable nations. Its been that way for years. The homicide rate is lower than in third world nations with immense violence.

    Other developed nations have dramatically lowered their homicide rates so these incidents don't occur with the frequency they occur in the US. The US will not deal with it. Its simply because the gun lobby and its allies have scared the crap out of politicians.

    Its incredibly tragic. It will continue. Its a sad commentary on how a single lobbying group has paralyzed the ability to deal with this issue as have other nations.

    Needless to say this force that paralyzes the ability for America to deal with this problem as other similar nations have done comes from the Right Wing Extremist perspective.

    20 dead children in a school!
    earlpearl, Dec 15, 2012 IP
  2. Rebecca

    Rebecca Notable Member Premium Member

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    #2
    No. It's not a single lobbying group. This is America. It's our Constitution (and those that defend it) that protects our right to own a gun.
    Rebecca, Dec 15, 2012 IP
  3. Bushranger

    Bushranger Well-Known Member

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    #3
    In the ONLY good thing he did for Australia John Howard, our fomer PM, banned the sale, importation and possession of all automatic and semi-automatic rifles and shotguns. Not one massacre since then. Most of us can still have guns, just not military grade weapons.

    Very sad news coming out of America today. No words for it.
    Bushranger, Dec 15, 2012 IP
  4. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #4
    Rebecca: The language of the constitution has amazing ambiguity reflecting a right to own a gun and referring to militias having guns. Militias were normal then. There are no authorized militias now.

    The constitution is up for interpretation. Its been that way for years. The situation from the 1700's does not reflect the situation today. The writers of the constitution were smart people and if they conceived of having guns in an unrestricted way such that these tragedies could occur unabated week after week, they would have written different language. They were not in favor of mad killers.

    You don't have to ban guns. You have to deal with the problems that keep occurring on a consistent basis week after week, month after month. Schools, malls, theaters, snipers, little kids in elementary schools. The US needs to confront the issue, not hide behind some extremist interpretation that means that the issue doesn't get touched.

    Otherwise move to Syria. Guns are okay there also.
    earlpearl, Dec 15, 2012 IP
  5. Alex210

    Alex210 Well-Known Member

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    #5
    Jesse Ventura talking about gun control.

    [video=youtube;WxNenz7q_eY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxNenz7q_eY[/video]

    Anyway, by the law, you dont disarm gangs or crazy people.
    Alex210, Dec 15, 2012 IP
  6. grpaul

    grpaul Active Member

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    #6
    Piers is such a douche... His very first question is idiotic.
    grpaul, Dec 15, 2012 IP
  7. boblord666

    boblord666 Member

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    #7
    Ah what the hell Bushy, if the yanks want to keep killing themselves and their kids while waving a 300 year old piece of paper in the air why bother. They're a waste of space and who are we to try to tell them how to run their fine, free, peaceful country. And yep that is the only good thing that poxy extreme right wing crap PM did for Australia.
    boblord666, Dec 15, 2012 IP
  8. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #8
    Aussies:

    IMHO this is one of those American issues that extreme right wing special interests have totally screwed up. 20 little kids got shot and the Right wing immediately goes to the constitution.

    A couple of suggestions.

    Since this issue has already hit the supreme court and it relies on Right Wing "original" theory in its right wing majority...apply the original application of the word gun.

    300 years ago Americans had muskets. Provide all Americans the right to own muskets. That is in compliance with both "original" language and you don't need to interpret squat.

    As to assault weapons, and rapid fire weapons, etc they didn't have that stuff when the constitution was written. Deal with it today.

    Meanwhile they didn't have psychiatrists and shrinks back then. When people were seen as weird or different they got the Scarlet Letter. Read the book.

    Today we have nuts and dangerous people. Make it harder to qualify to buy guns. Don't make it easier than getting a coke at a 7-11. Back when the constitution was written they didn't have shrinks, diagnosed nut cases, cokes or 7-11. Deal with it today.

    The right wing and the gun lobby have taken this issue off the board. You can't deal with it in the US. Meanwhile in states like Florida some scum bag pols sucking up to the gun lobby passed a law that said children's docs, pediatricians can't warn parents about locking up guns. I'm pretty sure that law was ruled unconstitutional as a violation of free speech.

    But having the right wing special interests effectively moved the issue so it can't be even discussed they now push the issue to turning guns into something sacrosanct like the stupid Florida law.

    Its time to change that balance of rights and discussions. 20 little kids in a school got shot by a nut with a rapid fire weapon that wasn't available 300 years ago.

    Seriously, for all we know the NRA is probably having a picnic.
    earlpearl, Dec 15, 2012 IP
  9. boblord666

    boblord666 Member

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    #9
    I seriously think you are the only voice of reason on this thread sometimes although I far from agree with your foreign policy views.:eek:
    boblord666, Dec 15, 2012 IP
  10. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #10
    Earl, I'm sure everyone is on edge waiting for the legislation you would propose in response to this tragedy. Please, fill us in. Don't make us wait. Tell us what your legislation would be, that doesn't include the banning of guns.

    FYI, though the guy had an assault rifle with him, just like the Colorado shooter, his weapon of choice was a semi-automatic pistol. I'm hard pressed to see what you could possibly propose other than a ban on hand guns. With that mentality, it won't be long until we are banning knifes.

    Another fyi. This guy didn't set the record for most killed in a school. That record was set in the first part of the 20th century, by a guy with a home made bomb.
    Obamanation, Dec 15, 2012 IP
  11. Bushranger

    Bushranger Well-Known Member

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    #11
    Welcome back bob, had another good holiday I hope.

    Yes, Howard had a bit of a bunfight getting it through here but, just after Port Arthur, he was determined and had a lot of us on-side.

    It seems like there's too many crazies in America who would go on their own rampage no matter what was put on the table. Can't touch the guns.

    The problem is just getting worse. Obama took on healthcare so taking on guns might be too much too soon. It does smack of injustice when they deny healthcare yet allow rocket-launchers.

    They say 'now' is not a good time to discuss it, just after a massacre, yet 34 children die every day in America due to gun violence. Children. Nowhere else would that be allowed to continue unchecked. NOW is the time to discuss it imho.

    The NRA cancelled a celebration of guns, due to take place today I believe.

    I don't think this is just a right-wing phenomenon. I think both sides seem scared to lose their guns. You may be right though.

    @Obamanation - banning knives next. How effin ridiculous. Note China's knife attack 'wounded' 20. Spot the difference?

    Another falsehood it seems.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-16/gunman-who-killed-26-27forced27-his-way-into-us-school/4430128
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
    Bushranger, Dec 15, 2012 IP
  12. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #12
    Obamanation, Dec 15, 2012 IP
  13. Rebecca

    Rebecca Notable Member Premium Member

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    #13
    That statistic is incorrect. Even websites run by left wing extremists are claiming 8 a day. It's a tragedy. But I don't blame these fatalities on guns, anymore than I would blame drunk driving accidents on cars.
    Rebecca, Dec 16, 2012 IP
  14. Bushranger

    Bushranger Well-Known Member

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    #14
    I'm not sure where I got that number, probably Twitter. Maybe they meant killed/injured?

    However Google shows the number is still staggering. I blame the guns. Strange, since we banned automatic weapons we've had no massacres, if guns are not the problem.

    Bushranger, Dec 16, 2012 IP
  15. boblord666

    boblord666 Member

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    #15
    No, can't be the guns that shoot people Bushy they are just inanimate objects. Why would you care anyway?

    052326-sandy-hook.jpg

    Figures like this are just a figment of lefties imagination anyway:

    • Since 1979, gun violence has ended the lives of 107,603 children and teens in America.
    • Sixty percent of them were White; 37 percent were Black.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
    boblord666, Dec 16, 2012 IP
  16. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #16
    we could discuss differences over a beer. ;)
    earlpearl, Dec 16, 2012 IP
  17. robjones

    robjones Notable Member

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    #17
    Sure... And after they effectively disarm the population using that reasoning, next maybe you'll be told your first amendment freedom of speech is limited to the spoken word and doesnt apply to TV, radio, or the internet, and freedom of the press is limited to handset type and quill pens.

    Way to think it thru. They'd be wrong to do it, but if you're armed with muskets and the military and cops have modern firearms, try telling anyone in power "no". Per the writings of the guys that created our Bill of Rights, it is largely there to help protect our people from tyranny, whether from outside the country or within.

    Oh wait... Even now there is no way common citizens armed only with small arms could possibly defend themselves against the might of a government armed with jets, trained troops and hardcore military weapons, right?

    Shame the vietnamese didnt get the memo before the US left their country, or the guyd in Afghanistan before the Russians left. They should have known better.
    robjones, Dec 16, 2012 IP
    indyonline likes this.
  18. Corwin

    Corwin Well-Known Member

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    #18
    You don't seem to understand. Only an army can be "authorized". A Militia is not authorized by the government because it exists for it's own protection when a group of civilians band together for the common defense. If government becomes abusive, it is the right of the people to take up arms and abolish it. Or, to quote the Declaration of Independence:
    "Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
    Corwin, Dec 16, 2012 IP
  19. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #19
    Corwin, Rob: I see that neither of you can bear to mention anything about the tragedy that just occurred. 27 people died. Are you aware of that? 20 of them were little kids. Are you aware of that? The families of the little kids are young. Parents and siblings will carry the scars for long years. Are you aware of that?

    When bad shit happens repeatedly you try and correct it. That works for personal life, families, businesses and governments.

    I looked at a review of mass killings in the media over the last couple of years. I saw the same thing repeatedly. The killers used automatic rapid fire weapons, and a lot of the killers deep down knew they were nut cases. They shot themselves before being captured. Deep down those mother f'ers had to know they were demented.

    So maybe you do something like the Aussies. You either ban automatic weapons or you make the ability to own them incredibly difficult subject to tough regulations.

    Nut cases kill people. In mass. Like little kids in an elementary school. Or maybe you didn't notice. Possibly every time a tragedy occurs you go blank on the tragedy.

    Maybe you make it much more difficult to own guns. Right now its increasingly easy to own guns.


    I took one course in Con Law as an undergraduate. Here is the one thing I recall. Its the classic description of rights per the constitution. It has to do with the freedom to express oneself.

    You can't scream "fire" in a crowded theater. It can cause a mass crisis where people can get harmed. Okay, you might be able to yell it, but "freedom of expression" is not a defense.

    The constitution is not a document that protects the rights of people who harm or kill other Americans. Its a great document. Its long life is a testimony to enriching the lives of Americans. It is not nor has it ever been a document to protect killers.

    The nation survives on balance not extremism.
    earlpearl, Dec 16, 2012 IP
  20. boblord666

    boblord666 Member

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    #20
    Children should be allowed to carry guns, it's as simple as that. I know Americans start training them from an early age so why can't they take their guns to school.

    They wouldn't have to experience this, that's for sure.

    363136-aptopix-connecticut-school-shooting.jpg

    Should be able to grab some of those servicemen returning from their overseas missions and set up machine gun posts outside schools, movie theatres, restaurants and so forth to make the country safer. A measly 300 million guns spread amongst the population obviously doesn't cut it that's for damn sure. In fact make it the law that everybody must carry - a crime free country and how awesome would it be to live like that.
    boblord666, Dec 16, 2012 IP