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10 New Unpublished Photos of Hiroshima

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by guerilla, May 8, 2008.

  1. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #161
    A few facts.

    Firstly, Germany was defeated by the time we deployed our nuclear weapons, and we did use them on Japan. No one had the weapon, besides us, until later on. Hence, I was honestly confused as to who Jim was talking about by the statement:

    Who were we to bomb, "while we were the only ones to have them?" The war ended with our use of the only two we had. I can only conclude he was speaking of the Soviet Union.

    Jim also said he'd use weapons of mass destruction whenever and wherever they would prove useful, to end a war. Reading his above sentence, if we're bombing somebody, I'd have to conclude we're in a war with them. If we're in a state of war, given Jim's logic,

    I drew my conclusions accordingly. If he was talking about conventional weapons, here, this sure is a change from the tune Jim's been singing throughout.

    If you're going to enter into the middle of something, you'd best know the situation first.
     
    northpointaiki, May 10, 2008 IP
  2. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #162
    I agree, Rebecca - on a personal level, I understand and embrace the sentiment.

    But when it moves from the personal, to this:

    I think we've jumped ship. Jim is speaking from a realpolitik perspective, which is fine. I would argue from that perspective, the free use of WMD's only comes back to bite us in the ass. It is a shortsighted thing to say, sure, nuke/chem/infect the hell out of anyone, anytime, we're in a war.
     
    northpointaiki, May 10, 2008 IP
  3. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #163
    That's understandable, it's called self-defense.

    I know you feel this way, but it's a morally questionable position to take in my opinion

    If you were being attacked by me, you would kill my family if you thought it would make me stop?

    If you were being attacked by me, you would kill my neighbors, friends, etc if you thought it would make me stop?

    Would you rape someone if it would protect your family?

    It's like saying that I have the right to punish your loved ones when I have a problem with you.

    Or, the ends justifies the means.

    Which I can understand (sorta) how you get to that conclusion, but it undoes thousands of years of human evolution, to retreat to the law of the club and the fist.
     
    guerilla, May 10, 2008 IP
  4. Jim Guinn

    Jim Guinn Peon

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    #164
    Thank you for the compliment. I appreciate it.

    Then, we'll spend it over there rather than here. We've been doing that for years with wars, foreign aid, etc. while we continue to crumble at home as a nation.

    Jim
     
    Jim Guinn, May 10, 2008 IP
  5. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #165

    I was actually responding to what Jim said here:
    What came to mind is that if someone were trying to kill my family, I would go to whatever extreme was necessary to stop them. It sounds like we agree on this, Paul. I would never try to argue that the use of WMD would ever be "moral", however I would not rule them out completely. If we are at war and a country continues to bomb us and refuses any negotiation, it might be a consideration. Japan didn't completely fall into that category, and I think we could have allowed more time for negotiation. I would be reluctant to go to war unless it is inevitable. Once you are at that point, "You do what you have to do, with any means, as swiftly as possible to bring it to an end with the least amount of loss to your people and the least amount of detriment to your nation." I can agree with that. In certain ways, my views may be more aggressive than some when it comes to war. For example, I would never rebuild, EVER. I think the Iraq war is ludicrous in that we bomb the heck out of them and then send our soldiers to go "make friends" afterwards. But that is a different issue, and I am babbling now. I'll probably stay away from DP for the rest of the day. I just received my tax stimulus check and need to go find a nice digital camera. Hope you have a great day, Paul.:)
     
    Rebecca, May 10, 2008 IP
  6. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #166
    We do agree on that, Rebecca. I'd lay my life down, and take another's, without stopping to think for a moment, were my wife and child put in danger by the actions of another (in fact, this isn't academic, and I have unfortunately had to do just that).

    I think this is utterly different from the idea of using WMD's whenever, wherever, to end a conflict we find ourselves in. I'd again ask - are we to drop nukes on Iraq? Jim's answer is, yes. In fact, Jim's answer is to just blow every man, woman and child to hell, wherever we wage war, such that there won't be any question who's boss. I cannot in any way support this. To be perfectly honest, I find that utter insanity as an instrument of state interest.

    Moreover, in part, it is out of concern for my son and his children to come that I honestly think we blew it in WWII. We introduced a weapon into the world's arsenal that could end the world itself. We used it as a legitimate means to wage war, and we are paying for such a paradigm now.

    The bomb/rebuild thing - interesting view, food for thought. I guess I have Versailles and its aftermath in mind - never in the history of the world had a country been made to pay for a war, such as Germany was made to pay, and all we achieved was to make a vanquished nation desperate beyond measure. On the other hand, I look to Macarthur's stewardship of Japan, at war's end, and would have to say this is a great example of managing the peace after the war.

    Still waiting on my refund. Enjoy yours!
     
    northpointaiki, May 10, 2008 IP
  7. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #167
    It's not a refund people. It's being borrowed against your children's future earnings. :rolleyes: The government can't refund your taxes without borrowing it from China. :rolleyes:

    It has to be paid back. Congrats on mortgaging your kid's future.
     
    guerilla, May 10, 2008 IP
  8. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #168
    I agree with you Paul, it would serve no purpose to drop a nuclear weapon on Iraq, other than create more suffering in this world.

    p.s. I'm enjoying my camera I just bought today with my refund. I plan on using it for pictures on my blogs. Thanks, Uncle Sam:)

     
    Rebecca, May 10, 2008 IP
  9. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #169
    Maybe you can help me to figure out mine - the lad is growing up, and he's got dinosaurs who prefer 35MM SLR.:)
     
    northpointaiki, May 10, 2008 IP
  10. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #170
    I would be happy to, PM me anytime. I think once you try a digital, you will love it. You save so much money on developing, plus it is private and no one can see your pictures unless you want them to. You can have all the pictures on your computer and email them, turn them into postcards, print them and upload them to a website. Most come with digital editing software, or you can get Picasa for free from Google. With Picasa you can create special effects. For example, you could take a picture of someone holding a rose, and make the rose red, with everything else black and white. When you get a digital camera look for the mega pixels as well. I had a 2 mega pixel which is horrible quality, I would recommend a 7 or 8 mega pixel. For my purposes, I want to make things and sell them on my blog, so I like close ups. You can get a camera that advertises a 3x or 5x and that should be sufficient. I found a new GE 7.2 mega pixel with 3x zoom that was wonderful for only $80 with easy to understand user guide at Walgreens. Kodak is another digital camera that is easy to use as well. I think you would have a lot of fun with it...:)
     
    Rebecca, May 10, 2008 IP
  11. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #171
    Thanks, Rebecca. We actually have a Minolta DiMage Z3, 4.0 megapixel, from many years ago - I've liked it in the past, particularly a decent macro and "super" macro:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I just can't seem to master some of its aspects - it has a weird problem in high contrast or backlight situations - everything just goes blurry. I suspect my laziness in not investigating the camera better. We did have a client at our restaurant, an amazing digital photographer, SLR digital, that was as beautiful as any 35MM SLR I've seen - sounds like your high megapixel range, though I am really intrigued by your GE model - will look into it for future reference. (Our tax refund is unfortunately going to bills this year, likely, or, the seed for a biz venture we have been backburnering. Anything to get us back to the country, where we love).

    We also have a panasonic Mini-DV, which I would love to play with more, but really having trouble downloading to the computer - I'd love a decent home studio package, for film editing, etc. Ever played with this?

    Thanks for the Picasa lead - fantastic! :)
     
    northpointaiki, May 11, 2008 IP
  12. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #172
    Yeah, nuclear war is really bad.

    Aaaw, what a cute little pirate.:)

    Not sure, you may want to try using the "Spot-AF" mode for the high contrast pics. This will allow you to pinpoint focus on the subject itself more clearly, hopefully creating less blur.

    You're welcome.:)
     
    Rebecca, May 11, 2008 IP
  13. vikram_mavi

    vikram_mavi Peon

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    #173
    i can not see photos
     
    vikram_mavi, May 11, 2008 IP
  14. Zibblu

    Zibblu Guest

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    #174
    WHAT? How can you say nuking two cities wasn't a slaughter or an atrocity? If Japan had nuked a US city would that have been an atrocity? I don't really think the use of nuclear weapons is ever morally acceptable. Too many innocent people die.

    I didn't look at the photos by the way. I really don't like even seeing stuff like that.
     
    Zibblu, May 11, 2008 IP
  15. Zibblu

    Zibblu Guest

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    #175
    Did you click on the link? Among the people who disagree with you is Dwight Esienhower. I trust his opinion a bit more than yours.

    ~~~DWIGHT EISENHOWER

    "...in [July] 1945... Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. ...the Secretary, upon giving me the news of the successful bomb test in New Mexico, and of the plan for using it, asked for my reaction, apparently expecting a vigorous assent.

    "During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face'. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude..."
     
    Zibblu, May 11, 2008 IP
  16. castdead

    castdead Active Member

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    #176
    Personally I oppose weapons of mass destruction very much (both nuclear and chemical), but a few months ago even some Japanese politicians also made some good points on the bombing.

    The Japanese government of that time was a master in propaganda and as such the Japanese people were prepared to do anything and go to the end.

    As such, going in for ground combat would probably have been much more atrocious by a tenfold.

    However it is atrocious that the US dropped the bomb on cities with high population.

    Did you know the first plan was to drop the bomb on Kyoto?

    I've been in Hiroshima a few months ago and it is really impressive to see the only building left standing combined with a very modern and young city.
     
    castdead, May 11, 2008 IP
  17. northpointaiki

    northpointaiki Guest

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    #177
    The lad is the light of my life. An incredible boy who astounds me more every day of his existence. OK, one more (dad) - figure you'd appreciate the shot of him with our mutts - the morose looking pup is Olu, Estonian for beer - explains his mug, and his temperament. :D :

    [​IMG]

    Thanks for the tip on the Spot-AF mode. I will give it a shot. :)

    By the way, a general shout out to all moms out there. Thanks, and peace to all mothers, everywhere.
     
    northpointaiki, May 11, 2008 IP
  18. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #178
    I see the pirate pic, but I cannot see the last pic of your boy with the dogs.:( Your son looks so sweet, I'll bet he is very smart too.
     
    Rebecca, May 11, 2008 IP