• Gunfire rocks Beirut; Hezbollah says Lebanon has declared war

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080508/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_protests

Just as i said, The civil war has started again. Lebanese tv showing sunni pro government and shiit pro hezbolla snipers firing on each other from buildings. This is exactly how the civil war started the first time. Time to kiss lebanon goodbye. Thanks hezbolla for protecting lebanon lol.

Clashes erupt for second day in Lebanon
By ZEINA KARAM, Associated Press Writer 18 minutes ago


BEIRUT, Lebanon - Witnesses and security officials say Shiite supporters of Hezbollah and Sunni backers of Lebanon's U.S.-allied government are clashing with automatic rifles and grenades.

The latest clashes follow a defiant speech by Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah in which he said the militant organizations would respond with force to any attacks.
It is the second day of clashes that have turned some Beirut neighborhoods into battlegrounds. The sectarian confrontation have also spilled over to other parts of the country.
The clashes are taking place on Corniche Mazraa, a major thoroughfare that has become a demarcation line between the two sides, and the Ras el-Nabeh area.
Television footage showed gunmen taking cover on street corners next to shuttered shops. There was no immediate word on casualties.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) — Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah said Thursday that the Lebanese government had declared war on his Shiite militant group by declaring its private telecommunications network an illegal threat to state security.
Nasrallah vowed to fight any attempts to disarm Hezbollah in a speech that hiked tensions already running high after a long-simmering political crisis between the Hezbollah-led opposition and the government erupted into sectarian violence.
"Those who try to arrest us, we will arrest them," he said. "Those who shoot at us, we will shoot at them. The hand raised against us, we will cut it off."
Celebratory gunfire rang out in Beirut as Nasrallah spoke live on television by videolink from a hiding place. The Hezbollah leader rarely appears in public for fear of assassination by Israel.
Lebanon's U.S.-backed government also said Tuesday that it would dismiss the security chief of the country's only international airport because he was suspected of ties to Iranian- and Syrian-backed Hezbollah.
Those decisions sparked sectarian clashes between supporters of Hezbollah and the government over the past two days. The violence emerged out of a long-simmering power struggle between the Hezbollah-led opposition and the Western-backed government for control of the country.
"The decision is tantamount to a declaration of war ... on the resistance and its weapons in the interest of America and Israel," Nasrallah said.
He offered a way out of the latest crisis, saying the "illegitimate" government must revoke its decisions against Hezbollah.
Hezbollah runs its own secure network of primitive private land lines. Nasrallah claimed the network helped the guerrillas fight Israel's high-tech army in the 2006 summer war.
He said the telecommunications network was "the most important part of the weapons of the resistance" and added Hezbollah had a duty to defend those weapons.
He and other Hezbollah leaders have suggested they are regularly targeted by Israel and they need secure communications.

"I am not declaring war. I am declaring a decision of self-defense," he said. The government has "crossed all the red lines. We will not be lenient with anyone."
He said Maj. Gen. Wafiq Shukeir, the airport security chief that the government decided to remove, will stay in his post, rejecting any replacement.
The government's decision to replace him came after pro-government leader Walid Jumblatt alleged Hezbollah had set up cameras near the airport — which is located in the Hezbollah stronghold of south Beirut — to monitor the movement of anti-Syrian Lebanese politicians and foreign dignitaries. Jumblatt suggested Hezbollah was planning to bomb aircraft to assassinate such figures. Nasrallah rejected accusations by pro-government groups that Hezbollah was bent on staging a coup.

 

Siniora has destroyed Lebanon, hopefully Nasrallah can gain control and rebuild

 

Future Tv said an iranian plane landed in beirut with 300 people. They also said hezbolla militia men greeting these iranians.
The taif aggreement said all lebanese militia must surrender their weapons. Everyone else but hezbolla has done it.
History will remember this civil war as the one started by hezbolla. They are using their force to shape lebanon according to iranian will and not the will of the lebanese people.

 

i feel bad for lebenon
why did the govt want to seize their telecom company?

 

Pizza because it was a spy operation setup in the airport. Last i heard hezbolla isnt the lebanese government(but that could soon change). How would u like spy cameras in an american airport watching every move you make. People were always wondering how the lebanese government officials were being targetted and killed with such accuracy. Well now they know. When i was in lebanon in 2002 everyone knew the syrian muhabarat(syrian intelligence) operated at the airport. They are probably now coordinating with hezbolla intelligence and might have been doing this before.

Does Hezbolla think they can take over lebanon peacefully? They dont understand that they will unleash a pandoras box if this keeps going on.
This fallacy of protecting the lebanese against an isreali threat was just one big fat lie to use as an excuse for hezbolla to keep their weapons.

sweet sara keeps saying isreali jets keep violating lebanese airspace. Well they keep violating jordanian and syrian airspace also. You dont see private militia in jordan and syria attacking isreal on its own do you?

This war is at the hands of hezbolla if it happens again. Remember folks also, this war could bring other elements into lebanon to really light it up.

Remember that Hezbolla is shiite, and they are now fighting the sunni groups. What is osama bin laden? Thats right hes sunni.
If sunni start to get into trouble with hezbolla who do u think could come in?

This is why im saying hezbolla could open up an endless pandoras box of war and destruction in lebanon which could end up lighting up the whole region.

 

Over the years I have gotten to know quite a few Lebanese emigrants to the US. Virtually all left because of the endless 15 year civil war, and prior or subsequent wars.

It is a nation that has been torn apart via these wars. So many of them speak wistfully of the beautiful parts of lebannon, much of which has been destroyed via decades of warfare.

I guess hezbollah is the latest of endless sects within the nation that have no problems tearing the country apart, while the current government is amazingly weak.

It is startling. While the nation may have 3-5 million current citizens there might be as many as 10 million emigrants and descendants of these emigrants around the world.

 

I feel bad for Lebonon too. But Siniora has to make a dialogue with Hizbollah, Nasrallah. Civil war will make both sides weak, only their enemies will win in this case

 

if you remember a few months ago it was reported by UN that some of these assasinations were made by a criminal group as not a political group
also how is having a telecom company is spying?although spying might have been going on, i do not see how the tel company is related to it?

 

Pizzaman, these are hidden spy camerasput into the lebanese airport. This has nothing to do with a telecom company and they were placed at strategic locations at the lebanese airport, specifically at areas where high ranking lebanese government officials would board and depart from. They knew exactly where these officials were going and coming from lebanon. There is no other airport.

When the government reported this was going on, hezbolla said this is a declaration of war against them by the government and if anyone touches these spy cameras it is teh equivalece of someone touching their weapons.
Hezbolla wants to show teh government they can operate independly from the government and anyone else in lebanon and there is nothing that anyone can do about it because they have iranian and syrian support and also have an arsenal of 90,000 iaranian missiles at their disposal.

hezbolla also promised they would never use their weapons against their fellow lebanese, but they have now purched atop of the highest buildings in lebanon and are sniping at people randomly. are these people really calling themselves freedom fighters?

As far as the assasinations, they could have very well been made by criminal groups but like the JFK assasinations, could these assasinations have been made without the intelligence needed by powerful innder groups? Who are the powerful inner groups in lebanon? The syrian muhabarat have never left lebanon and still know every inch of that country.
If it was the isreali mossad then syria would have known about it and exposed them a long time ago.

 

What is Lebanon government? It is just bunch of armed guys fighting another bunch of armed guys. To call one group, "government", doesn't give it any kind of legitimacy against the other groups. Both sides have their puppet masters.

 

so if the telcom company is not related to spying why it is targeted by the lebenon govt.
do other groups keep an eye on hezbolah?
what percentage of lebenon are shia?
what percentage are sunni?
what percentage are christian supporting the govt?
what percentage are christians supporting hezbolah?
what is the big deal if they want to know which member of the govt is leaving lebenon?why are these info kept secret in a democracy anyway?
thanks for the info pingpong

 

I do not like the government of Lebanon but at the same time Hezzbollah has no right to be doing what it is doing with this.

 

I havent heard about the telecom company. I need to research this more. All i know is that the government has uncovered the hezbolla spy operation at the airport. As far as percentage wise I believe the shiite represent the larger percentage. I dont know the exact percentage but i will look this up, but if there is peace in lebanon the shiite would then be a minority because there are over 30 million sunni-christian lebanese(at least) living outside of lebanon and most are waiting to come back.

This is much great than a religious battle. The lebanese government army probably have over 50% shiites in them.
This is a war of political idealogy. Its a battle between hezbolla that wants to create an extremist shiite state in lebanon that is under the iranian-syrian umbrella versus the lebanese government which only reached out to teh west to save itself . In truth the lebanese government just wants all foreign countries to leave it and the lebanese people alone. Sure there are warlords in that government who i also dont think much of, but if hezbolla comes in, surrenders its weapons to teh government and joins it, most of these warlords will be forced to step down by the lebanese people, and believe me even the former civil war warlords are sick of fighting as they all went through 30 years of civil war .

Godisgood i agree 100% but this government is just an infant transition government thatw ill eventually change, but hezbolla isnt giving it the chance to do this.
Good governments arent created overnight.

 

try to ask the people in US to disarm is also imposible.
it seems that between the hezbolah and christians that support it you have more than 50% then why can't these people exercise their political choice? the others that are not in lebenon can come back if they want to and vote.
also the way i read bbc it does not say why the govt wants to take their telecom company?why can't the govt make their own telecom to replace it naturally by competition?.
why the airport needs secrecy anyway? why people of lebenon are not informed when their govt officials move in and out of the country and why their destination should be a secret?
maybe if the govt was not so set against half of its population then there will be more harmony?

 

Pizza , the syrian muhabarat have been there for 20 years and still are in there. First of all hezbolla and its followers need to be lebanese first and iranian second. they cannot be lebanese and support an occupying syrian force and yet be against isreali agreesion. You cant have it both ways.

Hezbolla holds the weapons now. Do you really think hezbolla wants peace? If peace happens they will no longer be the majority in lebanon (if they are right now) . The only christians that are supporting hezbolla right now are the syrian national socialists and general aouns men(now both stand for the same thing). There needs to be secrecy with government officials because they are being targetted for assasination by syria and its allies.

Why do u think hezbolla doesnt want anyone touching those spy cameras?
If they didnt have any incriminating evidence on them do u think they would care? They could just replace them at a later date.
Do you really believe that most lebanese are stupid enough to want a war with isreal? For what reason? The sheba farms??????

This is just an excuse for hezbolla to stay in power. hezbolla was originally formed as a resistance a long time back but they have become a political machine for iran and syria. Syria wants lebanon in choas now and hezbolla is making it happen.

have to go to work now, i will research more when i come back.



Also do you see the private citizens of america invading mexico and starting wars with our candien neighbors???/ No. Do you think our government would stand idly by and watch a rogue milita disrupt peace in our country? NO.
This is exactly waht hezbolla did when they started their war with isreal.

 

does the lebenon govt provides adequate services to the people in the south? electricity,telecom,hospitals and so on? at the same level as they provide for the other part of the country.
here is some info about the telecom system. i do not see how this telecom system is a security issue for lebenon, other than its hezbolah conection. the article does not explain this connection.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7385733.stm

 

That is left to Hezbollah. Also Hezbollah is supported by the majority if Lebanon (even some of the Chrstians)...just not by the rest of the Christians

Siniora is interested in helping America and Israel

Nasrallah is interested in helping Lebanon

 

Oh im sorry but that BSSSSSSSSSS. Hezbolla is backed only by general Turncoat Aoun and they arent even backed by all the shiites in lebanon even. If you look at the governments army you will see that more than half are shiite so its not 50% of the lebanese people. The only reason their rally for syria(the occupier) reached a million was that they shiped a few hundred thousand people from across the border of syria(the mother land lol).

Now again thats a bunch of bs that saniora is pro america. He wasnt pro anyone until hezbolla started making trouble . he reached out to the west to try to survive just as hezbolla reached out to its true country iran to build its power base. We might as well just call them iranian.


Pizzaman, this is a transition government and they dont even have the resources to provide for everyone in lebanon let alone in the south. How do u think Hezbolla is providing the people in the south? Thatsa right they are being funnelled millions upon millions of dollars from IRANNNNNNN, their true country.
Before Iran , hezbolla were just beggars on the streets. Heck, give me 300 million bucks and i can support a few tiny villages in the south also.

 

this is sad really, I thought there won't be back to civil war, I hope this will end fast before it develops to something that can't be stopped, really, this is very bad and I do not think throwing blames and exchanging accusations would help anybody, I hope all this would stop tomorrow and they will sit on negotiations table.

 

Imad what is there to negotiate anymore. The only way out of this situation is to split lebanon clean into 2. If hezbolla and aoun want to fight iareal on behalf of iran i say let them, but let them have their half so no more innocent people get hit in the crossfire . Look, im not saying the current lebanese government is filled with angels cause they are not, but they understood enough to try to get alonmg with each other for the sake of the lebanese people.

In the civil war geagea was pitting his lebanese christian forces against another christian leader Aoun, the druze were fight Amal, amal was fighting hezbolla, bachir was fighting against chamoun etc etc ect.
Those thugs finally learned how to put their arrogance aside and put their weapons away andf formed a coalition. Now Hezbolla wants to drag lebanon yet again(2006 was the last time) back into the stone age.

Lebanon is in no imminent threat from isreal and never was simply because there is nothing of interest in lebanon to isreal besides the litani river which is no longer diverted to isreal anymore.

This is an excuse for hezbolla to keep their weapons and let syria and iran
get their fingers into lebanese politics.

You all know me i have spoken up against the isreali government when i thought it was doing wrong, against the war in iran and the deicision the bush administration made, and now against hezbollas decision to drag lebanon into a civil war. Im not here to take sides, but in this case as with the iraq war, im calling a clear spade a clear spade.