“Death to the enemies of Islam!” the counterdemonstrators cried, encircling the women

religion has been used by people to rule over oneother for ever. if there is a god and these books and messages are from him we clearly must distinguish his word from mans word and only defend his not to elevate the other one to the same level.
there is no reason to defent sharia laws or popes diary or rabbis writings like it is the religion itself. it is not and it can and probably is wrong often enough that would need constant reexxamination

 

we are not talking about quran but the sharia law.
is that written by god also?
i thought quran is the last of prophecies. how do you elevate sharia to the level of quran. read what you wrote. there is no need for sharia laws

 

Yeah... but the discussion is on Sharia law... not about Quran...

Sharia is not based on Quran only. It was based on Ijma and Qiyas to a great extent. Consensus of the people and logical reasoning. Without these two important pillars, Sharia is void.

 

We, Ourselves, have sent down the Dhikr (the Qur’ān), and We are there to protect it.
No one can change it (6:34, 18:27, 10:64). It is complete (6:115). Nothing essential has been left out of it (6:38, 6:59, 10:61, 34:3).
@new read the blue part
sharia is void because of the orange part

 

how ...what's wrong in it?

 

In the discussion it was said

@Pizzaman
The laws set in Quran and guidelines given in Sunnah are not there for us for change , it is a closed chapter

Allah said after the last Sermon of Prophet (PUBH)

This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My Grace upon you

read: there is no space for any modification, it is already perfect

 

@new
1- do you think word of man is equal to the word of god?
2-do you think sharia is the word of god?
3-is sharia written after quran?
4-do you think quran is the word of god?
5-do you think quran is complete?
6-why do you need sharia ?did quran had to be completed?
7-do you think quran and sharia have the same legitmacy?
8- why don't you consider sharia as openning the closed chapter of quran?
9-why do you need sharia if quran is perfect?
10-is quran the last book from god?

 

Quran is the word of God and God is taking responsibility to protect what He has sent

 

so why do you feel it necessary to speakup in its defense. do you think god needs your help.
he clears up as to who is responsible for defending his word.

it is you that equate his word to the mans word and call both your religon not me. god claims only quran nothing else
@new
try answering my questions t see where you have gone wrong.
or answer them and i show it to you

 

Allah said that He will protect the Quran ...but how ? May be He is going to protect the Quran through Muslim Ummah .....
He does not need our help, but we sure need His blessings!

 

can he protect it or he would need your help.
he have already told you who is to protect it and what you are supposed to do. does anywhere in quran he tells you to protect quran. isn't quran a complete and has anything that is important that you have to do
is protecting quran important.
or maybe god didn't think of everything. accept the fact that if you belive in quran then it is not your duity to protect it or your responsibility or your job. same goes for killing gays and the people that leave islam. these are the matters that god want to take care of himself. and when you and people like you decide to do his thing, then i am sure he won't be happy with you either.
you are going against his word. that is why your sharia has to be abolished and reexamined because it is an infringment on god and his domain. this is clear in the part of quran that you posted and i colored it

 

I already answered your point about Protection of Quran .. we don't know how it will be protected but we are sure that it will be protected and this is the reason that Quran till today is the only unaltered Holy book, hundreds of years have passed and not the minutest of change has come to Quran ... Its script is same as it was centuries ago

AND. you are mixing totally different things here ..Quran does fix necessary punishments for certain crimes like (theft, fornication, consumption of alcohol, and apostasy) which are to be carried out under Islamic law

 

i am not argueeing the validity of islam with you. just validity of your beliefs in regard to islam and i use quran as the measuring stick.
the blue part tells you who is going to take care of protecting quran and as result islam. yet you try to bring yourself and umma into it

just follow qurans recomendation. where does it say to kill the gay people or kill the people that have left islam.
that was the question that i asked first and i was told that it was added later. added later means it is not part of quaran or islam. maybe you have a different religion. isn't islam about following quaran and isn't the orange part what you belive in.
show me where does quaran tells you to kill gay people or where does it say you have to protect it or where does it say you have to kill the person that leaves islam.
if it does then i have no argument with you that i can win, but if it does not you have no argument with me that you can win

 

It is about protection of Quran, for Islam Allah has ordered Muslims to spread His word in world and stop people from doing what is wrong


and killing of people that leave Islam is from the interpretation of Quran and Ahadis no one is making up anything here
If you want to read the details then you can read here http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/apostasy.htm

 

and further ... there is no specific punishment prescribed for homosexual behavior in Quran ...however the punishment of adultery or rape is clearly mentioned in Quran

 

interpretation of Quran is not valid, because quran clearly advices against killing. you must show in quran where god told his followers to make an exception to his word and kill. from your link

. refer to the orange part of your quran quote for assistance in understanding me.
on the homosexuals then again we have the word of man overriding the word of god. refer to the orange part again. if these crimes were important enough to require murder then i am sure it would have been said in quran as quran is complete. following these practices are clearly against what is said in quran and then it must be against islam. if you want to practice islam atleast read quran and follow what god have told you to do. you are following what a man has told you to do. not very islamic. is it?
take your laptop to mosque and let me debate your imam. he is wrong and i can prove it
and show me what quran say about adultery or rape. i do not know so i can not talk about it.

 

Sunnah along with Quran is part of Islam and is as sacred to Muslims as it Quran

and in Quran Allah tells us to follow the Prophet and He is the perfect guide to be followed

following are some verses from Quran about Prophet (PBUH)


Say (O beloved Prophet): O mankind! I am the (Prophetic) Messenger of Allah to you all, of Him to Whom belongs the Kingdom of the heavens and the earth. None is to be worshipped except Him. He gives life and He causes death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, who believes in Allah and in His Words, and follow him so that you may be guided. (7:158)

Say (O beloved Prophet, to mankind): If you love Allah, then follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Surely, those who swear allegiance to you (O beloved Prophet), swear allegiance to Allah.

so indeed your whole argument is based on an assumption that is false

Muslims pray 5 times a day and do you know it is no where mentioned in Quran and neither the procedure of pray is mentioned in Quran ... Quran just said that Muslims should pray ... the way to pray was taught by the Prophet (PBUH)

I suggest that if you really want to know about Islam then study it with an open heart, you will find the logic behind everything

About rape and adultery you can read here http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...h-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503548032

 

Xtianity and Islam always tell you to study with 'an open heart'... that's how the spell enclaved into their specific so called 'god's word' book of the offensive gods do affect the humans!

 

i checked the wiki and it seems that there are different meaning to sunna and different level of trust on hadith. i thought one of the reason that muslems feel that their religion is more authoretive is the fact that the word of god is preserved in its original form in quran and it is complete and unchanged, but here you are introducing other aspects into this which is not uniform and not even from god himself. now it could be that this is what muslems belive but what makes you think it is what they should belive. you presented a part of quran that says quran is complete and it includes everything that it should include. and a few post from there you say there is this other thing that is needed to complete the teaching of islam. these are two contradictory statments. both can not be true. quran is either complete or it is not.
i am not saying that these things are ok in islam just that these punishments are not part of quran so it might be cultural punishments and as such since it takes life it is against the word of god and not religious. but you say hey quran is not the only thing and it needs sunna to complete it. can you makeup your mind. can you look at it with open heart and mind first before suggest me to do it

 

I am not a scholar... just a curious mind. I do not live in an Islamic country nor under Islamic laws. I am not an Arab. So, thats why my views are a bit different. From what I know, Sharia laws are mostly man-made (with some exceptions) and they are not perfect (some of them).

There are a lot of things that could be different, especially laws with regards to women's rights. My grandfather is a Judge in the High Court, and I discuss a lot of stuff with him. Our society has changed... from the dark ages in the 7th century to this new civilization. Its been a bit different, especially since the last 300 years.

It is time for Muslims to adapt to the new world... (just my opinion)