On Content and Writing at DP

I've traveled far and wide on the web. In some corners of the web, DP sometimes has a bad reputation stuck to it. Whatever is said about it, though, I know of it as a place I can come to make some money. And with the shape of the world economy the way it is, this is an important thing.

Since I've gotten so much from DP over the years, I want to give some back. In that spirit, I offer some tips and pointers for writing content in the DP content marketplace. Please note that I've only been selling content here for about a week now. I've been around DP longer (selling advertising and reading some other threads), but I've just started with the content selling. This could be considered a plus, though, because I'm bringing a fresh set of eyes to the situation.

For Newbies

If you're new to buying or selling here, there's some basic info you'll want to include in any threads you start. Start with your requirements. The more specifically you state what you're looking for, the more likely you are to get what you're after w/out the writer having to guess. Other important info to include is the price you're willing to pay (or the price you charge for writing articles) and how many words the article(s) will be. Lastly, although sometimes forgotten about, make sure that both parties are in agreement as to the deadline of the article(s).

Reputation

Because there's no certificate system to label writers (for example, whether English is their first language, what country they reside in, how many years of experience they have, what topics they're proficient in) a writer at DP really has to build his reputation. I've heard hints here and there about this person or that person having a "writer database" chock full of writers able to churn out content at the drop of a hat.

I like to think in my short time as a content writer at DP, that I've made it into some of those databases. If I haven't, I'm sure by continuing to work with the clients I'm working with word will spread as to my quality for the price. Which brings us to the next matter.

Pricing

Man. DP truly is a global marketplace. Some may complain that it's hard to compete with workers who live in countries where it costs less to live. To that I say deal with it. It's the way the world's moving, toward a global economy. Whether you like it or not, with the Internet, there's no going back at this point. Knowing that, it's best to embrace the fact and learn to make the best of it.

For one thing, being an American, I've grown up speaking English. I also know the ins and outs of American English, the small nuances that make the text somehow a little more readable (hopefully.) That said, there may be writers that write as well if not better than me, but can charge less for whatever reason. This brings us to our next point, which is connected to the reputation we talked about.

Networking

It's all about the networking. A lot of seeds are sown at DP in the forums and some of those sprout to contacts in my email or even IM address book. This makes DP and its thousands of members a great place to expand my network - for content creation and a lot of other topics. It's almost a bazaar or open market like atmosphere.

More on Pricing

Here's what I've noticed on the pricing:

< $0.01/word - These people are either desperate for money or live outside the United States. While not having purchased any work at this price (or any for that matter) I can't talk about it's quality, but I imagine it's on the lower end of the spectrum

$0.01 - this, sadly, seems to be the normal mid-level price for English content at DP unless you have connections or a good reputation built up.

$0.015 to $0.2 - I've seen a few writers, including myself, go to this rate. While still way below what a normal copywriter would make, it's double the $0.01 rate.

> $0.02 - to be honest, I think I've only seen one or two writers brave enough to ask for this much here. And while I understand you should try to get clients from a lot of places, DP being so large makes it easier to find those connections. I've also seen one or two buyers offer to pay at this level, which was nice.

To the buyers - Remember that you get what you pay for! You may think you're doing good by paying the cheapest you can for content, but it's not a value in the long run. The quality writers are charging a little more because they are worth it. If in doubt, just buy one or two articles and compare it to one of the $3/500 word articles you buy. If you're just buying junk content to "fill up" a site to try to trick search engines, that's one thing. If, on the other hand, you want engaging, quality content that will get readers and links, you're gonna have to pay a little more for it.

To the sellers - Don't underestimate your value! Writing good quality content is not an easy task! If it was, the buyers wouldn't need us to create it. I think sometimes people see one or two selling for a ridiculously low amount and automatically assume they have to charge the same or less or they'll get no work. That's not the case if you can show you have quality content.

iTrader

Most of the writing I've done I've completed first then received payment. I've only dealt with people who have an iTrader above +5, though. While no system is flawless, I think iTrader is a great way to know if you can trust someone or not. Be careful out there, though, as more than likely someone is out there trying to scam.

Article Rewrites

I'm not trying to point a finger at anyone who buys or sells this service, but I've stayed away from it as it seems a big shady to me personally. When terms like "copyscape passed" are tossed around it makes me stop and wonder. Do people really want garbage content that's 'passable' but not very engaging? In my travels around the Internet, I've stumbled across horrible writing with circular sentences not making much sense.

While content like that can be gotten cheap (article "rewrites" go for around $3/500 words...) to me, it makes sense to pay a little more money and get good content. Sure, low-end rewritten content might "pass as real" in search engines, but in today's world you want to really be "passable" to real live human beings. That means it's about more than just stringing words or sentences together, it's about creating something engaging and interesting that people will read and (maybe more importantly) link to willingly without being asked.

Final Thoughts

I don't know. I've been thinking about the whole DP writing scene over the last week. After writing around 10,000 words today, my fingers are still moving so I figured I would get some of it down to share.

Hopefully this will help someone new to the scene here or maybe get some of the veterans talking openly about ways to improve the market here - cutting down on fraud and increasing the quality of the content.

I'm going to keep writing content for DP members for the foreseeable future. As I do, if any other thoughts or tips come to me, I may add them to this thread.

If you're a content buyer or a writer, feel free to add your thoughts below. Content Creation at DP is a great area of the site and it would be nice to talk a little about how we could make things better for all of us.

Thanks for your time and a special thanks for everyone I've worked with so far.


-kpaul

 

Great post and I must say that I agree with most of the content. Unfortunately, in my time on DP I have found that 75% of content seekers are looking at the price only and totally disregard the quality of the content they should be receiving instead.
Quality content is like a fine wine - it gets better with age and will have a tendency to drive quality traffic to your site/blog for years to come.
Poor content has the opposite effect but people do not seem to realise this.
When I started out selling content on DP, I was charging X amount per word but over the last few months, more and more "$3 for 500 word" merchants are appearing, and whatever we say, it is having an affect on us writers that charge a higher rate, so I have been forced to look at my prices and downgrade them (not by much, mind you) just so that I could drum up the levels of work I was doing just a short few months ago.
Because of this, I am obviously searching other avenues away from DP and can see myself in the future, leaving this forum altogether.
Anyway, I gave you some rep because your post should be an eye opener for both content writers and content buyers alike....

 

First off, good observations, kpaul. I could only nod in agreement. It may not be your intention, but indeed this is a good way to advertise your service as your writing can speak of your quality, which I must say deserve a higher rate than .01.

However, I don't believe that all $3/500 articles have poor or poorer quality than those tagged at .02 per word. Some may just be just as good as an established writer in the field but want to lower their rate to attract clients and quickly fill their previously stout pockets. Competition here is as stiff as Mt. Himalayas, so if you want to get just a little slice of the cake, you must be willing to lower your rates without lowering your writing standards. This way the client will see your true value and commend you not just for your cheap service. Because, although the covering may speak of the content, the saying, "you can't judge a book by its cover (alone)" is equally a correct statement.

However, if you're really a good writer, I bet you will be tempted to question yourself and soon realize you deserve more. Now it will be up to you do something about it: ask for a raise and risk losing your existing clients, or advertise your real value and earn the respect and confidence of those who really matter. If you know you are good and still find peace in a cheap/er rate, that is your prerogative, and, oh, how blessed you are. If you're not, and worse, you're clueless about it, and don't care if your price is the lowest in the market, may God bless your clients.

Generally speaking, those willing to pay more, deserved what they paid for: good quality, well-written unique no-nonsense articles. And this is what I provide also, to be sure.

 

Thanks, ladies.

Something I forgot to add that I'm curious about...

PayPal

Is it normal for the buyer or the seller to pickup the fees at PayPal? Personally, I've been eating them, but I'm getting a little full.

 

I used to do ALOT of work on DP, and I almost always charged higher than .03 per word. I've dipped down to .02 when I needed some extra cash, but that's a rare occurrence.

The thing is, and I'm not trying to insult anyone here, but I would guess that the vast majority of webmasters on DP are "part time", or not successful enough to have the cash flow needed to invest in higher quality content.

And I'm sure there are some writers who do a great job and charge lower rates.

For writers, here's my advice. If you're good, earning .03, .05, and even .10+ per word isn't that hard. It's tough on DP, but the internet is a big place.

The trick is to specialize. Understand what value you're providing for clients and show it to them. There is great value in high quality content. Sales copy that increases conversions provides enormous value. Website content that engages readers provides enormous value as well.

You write your own paycheck. And you get paid based on the value that you provide. It's all about knowing the needs of your clients, marketing yourself, and providing real value.

Regarding Paypal fees, the seller generally eats them.

-Scott

 

Great thoughts. Thanks.

And for the PayPal info. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't the only crazy seller eating them - or maybe offer that as an added value to my service.

 

Hi Kpaul,

I agree 100%. I simply cannot lower my rates any more than .02 per word because I carefully research every article I write. My time is not spent simply writing content that was found in the top ten Google search results, because these typically end up being rewritten Ezine articles. No offense, I have several articles on Ezines myself. It's just that my time is more valuable than .50 an hour, because of the research that I perform.

Priding myself in numerous content areas, each article that I write isn't only a chance for me to make money, but also an opportunity for me to research an area more completely. This allows me to increase my knowledge, makes me a better writer, and create more unique content on the same subject.

For the knowledge that I've gained since freelance writing, I should be making top dollar (I've actually improved on games like Trivial Pursuit and Jeopardy, thanks to my research). I have integrity and pride in each article that I write, but since I actually research each topic, I feel that my time is valuable. My typing speed varies between 70-75 words per minute, so yes, I could turn myself into a mindless writing mill. But I take my career seriously, and seriously, I can't go below .02 per word.

My affection for research has taken me out of the 'rewrite' these articles' pool as well. It isn't worth it for me to rewrite an article, because of my ethic and commitment to unique content. There I go, researching for the rewrites and turn the article into an in-depth project, hardly worth the low rate.

So, that's my story. I have goals, I love freelance writing, but I can't go lower than .02 per word. My content is worth it. It is always unique, always original, always carefully researched. I look at my words, I use various synonyms to replace "tired" words, all while maintaining the integrity of keyword phrases, no matter how strange they might be.

You get what you pay for, and with me, you can rest assured that you will get a carefully researched, and accurate article writer.

It's nice to know that I'm not alone with my commitment to the purity and integrity of the written word, no matter what the genre or form.

Pay Pal fees can be tough, especially once you start working on bulk scale. I've had several $1,000 and up projects only to be dismayed by the amount of fees Pay Pal takes out. On the plus side, you can deduct the Pay Pal fees when filing your taxes. They are a business expense.

If you've ever sold content on Rent a Coder you'll find the same thing. Those fees sneak in and eat up your profits, those hungry little buggers.


Charisse

 

Great post, thank you for sharing.

I know I have met a lot of great people here are DP. Whether they are doing this part-time or full-time, they have a lot of passion for their subjects and their websites. I'm happy to write content or sell pre-written article packs.

I think sometimes the pricing wars can get you down, but you can't take it very personally. Most people recognize quality and will pay for it. I do think our economy has had an effect on everyone though, that is for sure.

 

Definitely throwing some rep your way for this post. Probably the most intuitive I've read to this point for a thread.

While I've only been on DP a week I've been skimming the BST area case studying the work, the quick selling points, the pricing, and the way most people do business here.

One thing I would like to add to your information up there is the keywords and SEO differences. For instance when it is my time next week to start selling over there, shooting quickly up the google search engines is my forte (i know it sounds like a plug). The point is if someone purchases a $3 article at 500 words what exactly are they getting?

As the writer, I already know what clients would be receiving and like you said, "You get what you pay for." Granted I understand some of the other comments telling us they could be quality content. So for those just looking to add to their site piles I can see how this is a feasible and cost efficient route to take.

However, if you're looking for articles to promote affiliate programs and need conversion rates, wouldn't you pay .02 cents a word or more when knowing that one or two sales will recoup the investment? Just how I look at it. It's too bad there can't be some sort of separation in the forum regarding content such as low end cost.

I did see a $5 and under post where they talked about those amounts should be set in the freebie section, but it doesn't seem to work that way.

Anyways, great post, those are my two cents worth.

Cheers~

 

I think that a writer needs to start out around $0.01 per word, even if they have great writing - at least, when you're trying to get work here at DP. After building up a solid client base and iTrader, I think it becomes easier to get higher prices for your work.

I think that with inflation, rates should go up. To be fair, I think that anyone with great English should be able to charge at least $0.02 per word, but it would take a lot of changing in the way that the buyers think.

Great post, by the way. I totally agree with you on pretty much everything (I do offer rewrites, but at a higher rate than the going $.005 per word) Keep up the good work!

 

Well, as writers, one way we can do that is by continually educating people here (following the DP rules! heh.) about why sometimes investing a little more for high quality content.

That said, I do realize that the quality of some of the $3/500 articles might be as good if not better than those of us who charge more, but I imagine those are in the minority - i.e. there aren't that many that compare.

IMHO, it is good to transparently be talking about this, though. I wish more content buyers would get involved and explain why sometimes it seems price is the only thing they think about when buying content.

 

I am glad to have found your post here... even though it probably means I won't be selling my writing skills here. I do hope I never get hungry enough that I would settle for .02 cents per word for copy! If I am not already really familiar with a topic, I do a ton of research and that takes time and sometime a lot of energy. Frequently the research only begins online and there are libraries to be visited or documentation to be ordered and frequently paid for. (this is not the most common expense of research, but in cases where you might be required to prove your suppositions it cannot always be avoided.)

I would be interested in seeing some of the copy that writers here are willing to do for .01 or even .02 cents a word. I cannot imagine it being well researched or emotion evoking.

 

Well, I don't think my copy is too horrible for $0.02/word.

That said, I am expanding my horizons and looking at other writing/content opportunities to have another source of revenue to add to my basket. (I'm of the don't keep all the eggs in one basket mentality...)

While I work my writing skills at other sites and in other ways, though, it's been fun to dip my toe into the DP pond and test out the waters. If nothing else, I'm getting paid to practice writing everyday.

To be honest, though, I don't do a lot of extra research (going to the library, etc.) I try to make sure I only write on topics I'm really familiar with, though, which helps a lot when banging out 500 word articles.

It would be interesting, to me at least, to see a side by side comparison of some sample writing at different CPW (cost per word...) Even anonymously it would be interesting, I think - and that way no one would have their feelings hurt?

So yeah... any content buyers out there want to buy one short 250 word article at the different rates and post the results? I bet it would be a popular (or hated) post. It would have to be someone with high iTrader that we all trust, though, and not someone trying to promote their own writing service.

Over the last week or so I've learned a lot of 'copywriting' and 'content writing' on the web - probably most importantly, the difference between the two.

 

A great analysis of selling your writing on DP, and it shows your commitment to good English. Furthermore, it shows a commitment to reasoned and rational thought.

I tend to agree from looking at the BST section of DP, that almost all of the writers wanting work seem to be price focused. The quality of their request/offer leads a lot to be desired in many cases, and has certainly prevented me from advertising my services or replying to a request. As bad as it sounds, I don't want my reputation to be affected by association with some of the DP buyers or sellers.

That said, we are all entitled to use whatever legal means we can to drum up business and for some writers DP serves as valuable conduit to their PayPal account. Living in Europe, I can't afford to work at those low prices, I'd be better off finding work in the construction industry lugging bricks.

Hailing from the Southern Hemisphere I am a native English speaker, university educated, and have a good grasp of marketing and sales writing. I find in Europe that many webmasters are happy to pay a reasonable fee for writing that appeals to expatriate residents because I am one of them. Occasionally I get work from US webmasters who like my writing style.

KPaul, I understand where your heart is and agree that DP isn't the right place to advertise your services. I hope you will keep contributing to this forum though, it is a welcome relief to read a post that hasn't been pasted from some third rate SEO site.

 

Great post. Nice to know that state of the market these days. $5 for a 500-word article doesn't sound like something anybody could make a business out of.

 

It's a cost of doing business. Therefore you should either eat them, or better yet, they should be accounted for when you set your base rates to begin with.

Having "great English" skills doesn't make someone a writer. Language skills are only one part of the equation. For the record though, they can (and do) charge over $.02 per word. As a matter of fact, many writers here charge well over $.02 per word and do so quite successfully. They're smart enough to know how to target a different market than those looking solely at price, they know how to build a network to bring in unadvertised gigs, and they operate "underground" rather than in the BST section most of the time. Plenty of buyers are willing to pay for quality. The biggest mistake you'll make here is thinking you can change the mind of those who don't. To them, you're replaceable. It's your job as a freelancer to target the right market. It's not the market's job to adjust itself to your wants.

Remember that what you see here isn't the complete picture. Why?

1. Those willing to pay higher rates won't advertise publicly, because they know they'll be bombarded with requests from all of the unqualified cheaper writers they have no interest in, and

2. Those willing to pay higher rates also often don't respond to advertisements publicly from those writers advertising higher rates for the same reason - if they did, they'd be hit with PM after PM from other writers.

Whatever you do, don't break the rules just because others are. If the transaction could be $5 or less, it has to go in freebies, or we'll slap them with infractions. If something is breaking the rules, feel free to use the report post button near the rep icon on the post.

Your mistake came the moment you viewed those writers as your competition. They're not. The problem wasn't what they were charging - it was who you were targeting. Re-think your market before you re-think your prices in the future.

 

Guys i want to lend my voice to the fact that it is sensible to look for other avenues apart from dp. Infact have as many as possible. I am looking to start writting here @ DP just to see what it is like. But i must say that Elance.com has been a Discovery to me. I having working there for two months now and i have made $700 so far. Not much but it is good for an extra income especially as i am still building a clientale. I also have 2 clients waiting on the line. The fact that writters pay membership fee to bid there restrains them from charging ridiculously low rates. However, sometimes, especially when you are trying to build a reputaion you may want to stay low..

 

Really good info. As a newbie on here it is great to get some solid advice and observations from people who know what they are talking about!

 

I work with many different writers and found that the quality varies widely. I do believe that you get what you pay for. I don't want to insult foreign writers, but I have found US based writers are able to deliver well written, effective articles.

 

Do you still feel the same way? I know it's three years later but in my opinion it seems the main change is the price of content on DP now. I can't seem to find new clients willing to pay .02 per word anymore.

Charisse