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How to get listed in DMOZ, the easy way. 2 days.

Discussion in 'ODP / DMOZ' started by gworld, Apr 21, 2005.

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  1. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #41
    There comes a point in the life of any organisation where it becomes unmanageable. DMOZ hit that a while ago. It has at its heart Altruistic Ideals, these however have been pushed aside by a large percentage of people on the inseide, who now do not let othersin, and, When they DO let them in, control.

    DMOZ is a dead duck, it is something that can no longer be what it was intended to be, simply because power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. DMOZ is an alltruistic dinosaur in a commercial field. It will very soon lose Google and then it will all be downhill from there.
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Jun 5, 2006 IP
  2. brizzie

    brizzie Peon

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    #42
    I think you've misunderstood what the DMOZ concept is all about. It is a volunteer project staffed mainly by people who don't give two hoots about commercialism. If Google ceases to take the data dump then a lot of the pressure is off, a lot of the reasons why the project has to deal with increasing amounts of spam and with corrupt editors is instantly removed. If anything it strengthens the actual project. The decent editors edit for the project and not for Google et al - for most of them Google dropping their directory would be a day to get out the champagne and have a party.

    There have always been standards set for accepting editors and from what I have seen, from the inside, the incidence of bullying is negligible compared to the early years. As for control it is virtually impossible - in more than three years of opening cans of worms internally no-one ever tried to control me and any attempts in that direction would have been firmly rebutted. There is a false perception put around by some of its enemies, often former crooked editors who got caught, that DMOZ does not tolerate dissent. Nothing could be further from the truth - constructive dissent usually brings promotion - "yes men" are no good in any organisation and DMOZ recognises that. It suits some to keep repeating the myths - go figure :rolleyes:
     
    brizzie, Jun 5, 2006 IP
  3. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #43
    [​IMG]

    May be I am confused but if this is the case, what is the reason behind the thread in internal forum discussing how to get DMOZ listed sites in to the new Google directory? :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Jun 5, 2006 IP
  4. ishfish

    ishfish Peon

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    #44
    I'm not sure what you're referring to. I don't remember a thread that dealt with that subject recently. Could you be more specific?
     
    ishfish, Jun 5, 2006 IP
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  5. compostannie

    compostannie Peon

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    #45
    I believe you are confused. Ishfish is correct, there is no thread discussing this.
     
    compostannie, Jun 5, 2006 IP
  6. shygirl

    shygirl Guest

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    #46
    And that really is the saddest thing of all. The fact that folks somehow think that being altruistic is something to be ashamed of in todays world.

    It's so cynical and bitter. Bugger Google, I do what I do online and answer to no-one. Editing I do off my own back for unselfish reasons and there are many editors here and within Dmoz who do the same. Otherwise why would someone do 1000's of edits ? Logically it just doesn't make sense that editors would do that just to get one or two of their own listed. But a lot of editors do have those numbers. Why would they purely for their own gains ?

    However in this thread :

    1) Gworld hasn't actually stated where his morals lie yet.
    Either as a person who craps on about everything being suspect there because he wants a better Dmoz, or a person who just wants to cause trouble no matter what and will laugh at the ease and impart the knowledge to others how easy it is to scam the place.

    He still hasn't said which.

    2) Minstrel has yet to respond this time because as much as he likes his sarcastic and personally insulting comments here, he is blind to the fact he's gotten lazy and...basically contributes absolutely nothing else of note or consequence. No-one else seems to have picked this up yet, but just read a few of them. No real content, just attacks at people here who are only trying their best, to explain their own experiences.

    I often imagine Minstrel, when he's been particularly insulting and intentionally hurtful to individuals here ( and he does know he is a bully sometimes)... wearing a particularly fetching shade of 'topaz' eyeshadow, french frilly knickers and a flowery dressing gown. Personally I find it takes the edge of that astute and very acid tongue of his. He has gotten extremely lazy in backing his claims up with anything solid or examples to support them. For someone steeped in the fact that all theories should be very basically research based and that assumptions should NEVER ever be made over anyone's 'mental facilties' or ' intelligence levels'. Especially as a psychologist (!!) . Yet still finding it amusing to post that people who post opinions which contradict his are either dumb or mentally challenged !...it's lame and very unprofessional.

    Dmoz isn't perfect. But lets get through at least one thread without accusations of 'sub-intelligence', 'pathetic-ness' or that the editor in question 'has no idea what they're talking about'. It's funny sometimes, but in no way constructive. I'm really bored with it..so it's been Frilly Knickers and eyeshadow for me here since about 2 weeks after I started contributing here.

    Anyway, back on topic, Altruistic ideals are never IMHO something to condemn, indeed it something to aim for !! Yes, things sometimes go tits up, self-interested people do get through, mistakes are made. I could go on. But lets not discount those people that are in it just because they want to be with nothing to gain.

    Altruistic is a GOOD thing not bad, no matter how commercial the world is today. Otherwise if the same thing applied elsewhere you could kiss goodbye to Oxfam or Cancer relief etc etc. You should be celebrating not condemming folks for that. In the future who knows ? But at the moment Dmoz is often described as a 'dinosaur', yet it has survived web evolution time and time again. And it's still being used by the biggest and most influential presence on the net today. Hardly then, a dinosaur.

    Just a survivor. ;)
     
    shygirl, Jun 5, 2006 IP
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  7. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #47
    There is a thread that the new Google directory is being discussed. As one of the suggestion in that thread, I think it is actually by a friend of Brizzie (Jea..) that editors should join in and add the sites in their category and even a suggestion to may be write a tool that makes this easier to import to Google. It is a simple plan to spam the new directory with DMOZ listings but what they don't understand is that new directory is different from DMOZ and it will not be there just because they have listed the sites. I am sure Google has some kind of algorithm to consider such manipulations. ;)
     
    gworld, Jun 5, 2006 IP
  8. ishfish

    ishfish Peon

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    #48
    I still can't find it. What forum was it in? What was the thread title?
     
    ishfish, Jun 5, 2006 IP
  9. shygirl

    shygirl Guest

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    #49
    Ah Gworld...

    The oldest chestnut in the book. If you can't answer honestly what's been asked, just ignore. :rolleyes:

    Very interesting yet very predictable. ( I'm yawning with boredom). You seem a bit of a woss when it comes to the crunch really ? You've accused many here and not politely either, of ignoring your own Dmoz related questions.

    You could just answer ? Are you too scared luv ? :confused: I'm starting to think your avoidance of my direct questions to you is obviously because you are afraid of answering them.
     
    shygirl, Jun 5, 2006 IP
  10. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #50
    It was answered previously here.

    From the posting:

    people should have a possibility to fight it, so they don't need to chose between being silenced or punished.
     
    gworld, Jun 5, 2006 IP
  11. brizzie

    brizzie Peon

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    #51
    You mean the Google Coop. Let's assume you are right and there is a thread. It wouldn't be surprising, editors talk about all sorts of things.

    According to you, people "are adding your favorite sites to your search results." Seems reasonable that editors should add the sites in their category if they want. Many editors have always operated across open source projects.

    How is adding listings spam exactly? Isn't that what the Coop is for?

    How is it manipulation?

    Since Google part owns DMOZ don't you think they would have objected to such a suggestion if they felt it inappropriate?

    The editor to whom you are referring has always taken a keen interest in Google and its relationship with DMOZ. In no way does that, or the existence of a discussion on the Coop, mean that a large number of editors would not throw a party if Google stopped taking the data dump.

    So to disprove what I said I assume most editors are participating in this conspiracy you believe is being formulated? How active is this thread? When was the last post? What level of support has it got?
     
    brizzie, Jun 5, 2006 IP
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  12. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #52
    :rolleyes:

    If you mean a goodbye party before leaving DMOZ, I can agree with you. ;)

    Do you think the reason that one of the few threads in internal forum that always have activity is about the next Google update, is because the editors so dislike Google? :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, Jun 5, 2006 IP
  13. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #53
    That's a very concise and very accurate description of the organization and its slow but inevitable decay, Old Welsh Guy.

    I don't think so. I think you've misunderstood what OWG said, because you've reacted to the post as an editor instead of an independent thinker. What he said was dead on.

    As for you, Shygirl, I already told you why I am not replying to your claims. It's obvious that you have some sort of psychological issue or disability and I have no wish to either attack someone in that position or to encourage delusional and egocentric thinking. Carry on as you were. But at least try to read what OWG said before reacting to it - you are missing the point of his post totally.
     
    minstrel, Jun 5, 2006 IP
  14. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #54
    Brizzie please do not tell me I have misunderstood what DMOZ was about, I was around before DMOZ started, and witnessed its birth with joy. I have been on the inside and on the outside so have viewed it from both sides. I have corrected poor submissions, and helped many toget quality sites into the index. I edit at some decent directories, and in fact edit the UK for Skaffe so like I said, lets not be condescending to each other. I have supported DMOZ when it deserves it, but stand by what I said.

    I have seen too many good aceptable applications rejected to believe that there is not protectionalism going on.

    Shygirl where on earth did I mention being ashamed? it is assumptions like this that REALLY get peoples backs up.
    you really are an arrogant person aren't you! WHO SAID YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED, who condemned them? CERTAINLY not me. I am one of the most altruistic people you will meet. I run for free many websites for groups, churches and charities, I give away advice constantly, I give free hosting to groups and individuals, and YOU accuse me like this? How dare you?

    WHo in God's name condemned anyone. Might I suggest you get down off that saddle of the high horse you are on and actually READ MY INITIAL POST.

    In my post I stated that

    - this is fact, as intially no one cared about SEo etc, and everyone was building a great resource, now, while many still follow these ideals many also use it to their own advantage which is a cancer eating at its heart. Crooked editors are altering titles, I have seen this with my own eyes so please don't defend it by mentioning the editor audit trail that exists. I know it can be checked, but people rarely have the time.

    - FACT , DMOZ can not fulfill the roll it was intended to simply because it is incapable of processing the large volume of submissions it gets. It is selecting and controlling (as in what categories the editors edit) editors in such a way that the backlog is getting worse by the day. Eventually the dinosaur will collapse under its own weight, or simply become an object of no worth and be largely ignored.

    Finally you mention Oxfam, and I am glad you did, because here is a small fact for you. One Oxfam shop was paying its manager £30,000 a year, and the shop was generating revenue of £29000 . This is a classic case that illustrates what I am saying.

    In another case in the uk someone gave some clothes to a charity shop, in the pocket they had hidden a large sum of money for safekeeping and forgot. When they realised what they had done, they returned to the charity shop, but were told they could not have the money back as they had donated it to the charity. The charity had found the money, said nothing to the person, and banked it. He then had to take legal action to get back his money.

    This is the sort of lost ideals I am talking about.

    When I said it is an altruistic dinosaur in a ocmmercial world, I am speaking of the fact that every day it processes less sites than it receives, therefore it is indefensible to say that it is not getting worse by the day.

    I love dmoz and appluad its ideals, but sadly it can NOT compete, nor can it/does it provide anything like the standards it set out to initially. It is all fine and dandy keping up editorial selection standards, but when the directory is sinking under the volume of submissions, it is akin to re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic!

    I am annoyed, but not surprised by your post, as this is just the sort of aggressive post that DOMZ zealots make of late when anything critical is levelled against their baby.

    Thankfully I can dismiss your comments as the rantings of an unhinged individual, as you CLEARLY did not read and digect my initial post.
    ---------------------
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Jun 6, 2006 IP
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  15. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #55
    I don't want to look at the gift horse in the mouth but what is the cause of this sudden change of heart? :confused:
    You were one of those who were fighting against me when I said the same thing previously. ;)
     
    gworld, Jun 6, 2006 IP
  16. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #56
    LOL Gworld, yeh we have had one or two hummdingers on this LOL, but I fought against you when I considered what you were saying was wrong, there are no friends in right and wrong ;)

    I don't have a change of heart, and disagree with what you are suggesting in bait and switch, it stinks and is really black hat. But on this occasion it is a case of glass houses and stone throwing ;) and When I made a statement about DMOZ, I got attacked by Shygirl, patronised, quoted out of context etc.

    I really do not get involved with he said she said, but I thought it odd that simple comments should provoke such an attack :( Although I have to say that after having read my post it does come across as a little aggressive maybe :(
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Jun 6, 2006 IP
  17. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #57
    LOL, you are just too sensitive. That was not an attack, you should read what they post toward me to understand what attack is. ;)
    How is these days with a guy from WPW, the big defender of DMOZ? I suppose he is not so keen on attacking others, deleting posts and locking threads after what has happened. :)
     
    gworld, Jun 6, 2006 IP
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  18. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #58
    :D Made me chuckle. a bit like the original Crocodile Dundee. " look out, he's got a knife" reply " That's not a knife, THIS is a knife"
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Jun 6, 2006 IP
  19. brizzie

    brizzie Peon

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    #59
    Ditto. But your perceptions and conclusions are wrong, plain and simple. In my own opinion.

    Gworld - you didn't answer the questions about why editors getting involved in the Google Coop constitutes spam or manipulation.
     
    brizzie, Jun 6, 2006 IP
  20. Old Welsh Guy

    Old Welsh Guy Notable Member

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    #60
    Then our perceptions and opinions differ so we shall agree to disagree :)
     
    Old Welsh Guy, Jun 6, 2006 IP
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