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DMOZ How To Get Listed?

Discussion in 'ODP / DMOZ' started by Ferrarislave, May 23, 2006.

  1. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #61
    First, orlady, your links are to editor-only pages so that hardly helps me, does it?

    Second, looking at your excerpts, do you see any reference to category names? As I have said repeatedly, you cannot copyright (or trademark or obtain a patent on) something that is nor original and unique. There is nothing unique about the DMOZ categories - they are pretty much like the categories for any other similar directory all over the net.

    You can make an argument for copyrighting the CONTENT of those categories. But honestly - trying to claim a copyright on category names? like /Regional/North_America/Canada/Ontario/Localities/O/Ottawa/, for example, or /Shopping/Clothing/Men/Shirts/ ? That's just too ludicrous for anyone but you to take seriously.
     
    minstrel, May 28, 2006 IP
  2. orlady

    orlady Peon

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    #62
    Oops! :eek: I've edited the links. Now you should be able to read them.
     
    orlady, May 28, 2006 IP
  3. brizzie

    brizzie Peon

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    #63
    Isn't there likely to be a difference between a category name replicated elsewhere, which it is credible to suppose anyone could have come up with independently and therefore not plagiarised, and replicating an entire (or big chunks of) a directory structure, including any quirks and not so obvious elements, where it is clear that coincidence could not be involved?
     
    brizzie, May 28, 2006 IP
  4. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #64
    A lawyer at $300-$400 /hour will take anything seriously. I bet if you pay them for 4-5 hours, they will write a legal document stating that you have a copyright on calling yourself a psychiatrist.
    Long time ago, I was in a meeting with a big corporation that had a government grant to make a device to connect dumb terminals to PC network which as you know doesn't make any sense. I was there with 2 other consultants at $200/hour, do you think anybody mentioned how stupid the idea was? ;)
     
    gworld, May 28, 2006 IP
  5. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #65
    brizzie, please look through any of the DMOZ category names and see if you can find anything there that you think is sufficiently unique and original to meet the criteria for a copyright. I've given two examples in my post above - I gave 2 or 3 others in a previous post in the other thread on this topic. There just is no way that anyone, even DMOZ, can copyright these.
     
    minstrel, May 28, 2006 IP
  6. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #66

    ODP uses a hierarchical ontology scheme for organizing site listings. Listings on a similar topic are grouped into categories, which can then include smaller categories.

    Gnuhoo borrowed its initial ontology from Usenet. For example, the topic covered by the comp.ai.alife newsgroup was represented by the category Computers/AI/Artificial_Life.

    http://www.answers.com/topic/open-directory-project

    So either DMOZ is in infringement of USENET copyright or you can change this "/" to this "\" in category structure and you will have a new copyright on your own directory structure. :rolleyes:
     
    gworld, May 28, 2006 IP
  7. orlady

    orlady Peon

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    #67
    As for the rest of your post, minstrel, the ODP copyright and license statements say they apply to "the Open Directory," not to "site listings in the Open Directory" or any other specified element. Furthermore, editors "assign to Netscape the copyright in any material (whether link descriptions, email, communications, directory organization, or otherwise) that you have created and submitted to the ODP." That indicates to me that the copyright claim applies to the ODP in its entirety, including all of its elements. I'm not a lawyer and I never played one on TV (however, I once took a law school course as a cross-enrolled grad student, I have worked with attorneys in a variety of professional situations, and I have served on juries), but I'm 99% sure that this is the way a lawyer would interpret those words.

    As for category names and structures, I argree that when viewed in isolation, category names such as Regional/North_America/Canada/Ontario/Localities/O/Ottawa/ and Shopping/Clothing/Men/Shirts/ do not seem to be particularly original. However, when assembled with other categories in a hierarchy, the category structure is a work involving a lot of original thought. I agree that those category names are pretty much like the categories for similar directories all over the net, but that could be because other directories have copied the ODP. I have personally named thousands of ODP categories and set up subcategory structures for large "chunks" of the ODP, and I am often amazed and/or appalled to see my work (including a few particularly dumb category names I chose once upon a time ;) ) replicated all over the Internet.

    Furthermore, even seemingly straightforward names often are the product of much analysis and discussion. For example, the category name Regional/North_America/Canada/Ontario/Localities/O/Ottawa/ reflects the results of several difficult decisions. "North America" was firmly embedded in the name only after ODP staff and editor discussion about whether to organize countries by continent or alphabetically; "Localities" was chosen after considering a variety of other options ("Cities", etc.); and there was much discussion about whether to list individual localities under Counties, directly under Localities, or in an alphabetical category such as "O."
     
    orlady, May 28, 2006 IP
  8. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #68
    Any proof that editor had any rights to assign in the first place? If the editor is simply copying the title and description from a web site, what right the editor has to assign other people's work to DMOZ?
    How about in the case of submissions? Any proof that titles and description that are used from submission from is submitted by the original author and not some one else that has no right to the material?:rolleyes:

    You can not make a derivative work of work of others that did not assign their rights and then claim copyright on it. It is this simple. ;)
     
    gworld, May 28, 2006 IP
  9. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #69
    Honestly, orlady, I do continue to wonder how you became an administrator! :eek:

    The fact that it may have taken a DMOZ committee months to decide on how to structure their directory doesn't surprise me in the least but it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you own the copyright to a category title like "Regional/North_America/Canada/Ontario/Localities/O/Ottawa/". Just which part of that sequence of words do you think DMOZ owns? :rolleyes:

    If you truly believe DMOZ owns the copyright to the kinds of category names it has in place, well knock yourself out and good luck trying to get any court of law in any jurisdiction in the world to agree with you or to assign damages to DMOZ for anyone who disagrees. It just ain't gonna happen.

    Purely out of curiosity, are you going to claim a copyright on the color green for DMOZ as well? That's also a feature of the directory. :rolleyes:
     
    minstrel, May 28, 2006 IP
  10. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #70
    Personally, I wouldn't mind giving Ottawa to DMOZ, very seldom anything good comes out of there. ;) :D
     
    gworld, May 28, 2006 IP
  11. lmocr

    lmocr Peon

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    #71
    The, was, it, best, of - just a string of words that can't be copyrighted - right?

    ;)


    How about when you string them together like this: It was the best of times ..... (and then add a few thousand more words to it). Then it becomes a copyrighted work by Charles Dickens.

    :eek:

    This is no different than discussing isolated category names as opposed to discussing the collective category structure (or large chunks of it).

    How about just the first chapter of A Tale of Two Cities - is that copyright? How about a paragraph? I would venture to say yes to both - that you cannot quote a paragraph from the book without giving attribution to Charles Dickens.

    Now I'm not implying that the ODP is as much of a literary work of art as that by Charles Dickens - but even lesser well known compilations of words can be (and are) copyrighted. Anyone ever heard of the Bar-Roo Forest?
     
    lmocr, May 28, 2006 IP
  12. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #72
    Read my answer to above nonsense here. :)
     
    gworld, May 28, 2006 IP
  13. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #73
    Well, now that's a surprise - lmocr agreeing with whatever orlady says. :rolleyes:

    You're still both missing the point and living in a dream world. We are not talking about the Tale of Two Cities or any other work of art here - we are talking about labels for directory listings that -- AS I HAVE SAID ABOUT A DOZEN TIMES ALREADY -- are basically the same as every other directory in the world. You cannot copyright, trademark, or patent something that is neither unique nor original. It's that simple.


    Off topic: By the way, lmocr, while we're on the subject of words, I told you months ago that you have the phrase "Australian Shephards" on your home page in two locations. It's spelled "Shepherds", not "Shephards". It's still not corrected. May I suggest a spell-checker?
     
    minstrel, May 28, 2006 IP
  14. crossman

    crossman Peon

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    #74
    Wow, minstrel you consider me a troll? Oh no, what will I ever do?:rolleyes: :D
     
    crossman, May 29, 2006 IP
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  15. orlady

    orlady Peon

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    #75
    There's plenty of room here under the bridge, crossman. When minstrel and the other Billy Goats Gruff try to cross the bridge, perhaps we can have a rousing game of "Pin the Tail on the Goat." :p
     
    orlady, May 29, 2006 IP
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  16. lorddomain

    lorddomain Banned

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    #76
    To DMOZ??? Just submit ... that is all you can do... and dont hope!
     
    lorddomain, May 29, 2006 IP
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  17. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #77
    Hint: Homework. You're back to school tomorrow, remember? :rolleyes:

    Suggestion: Don't ask orlady to help if you care about your grades.
     
    minstrel, May 29, 2006 IP
  18. crossman

    crossman Peon

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    #78
    Thanks for caring minstrel,:D but I'll be fine.;)
     
    crossman, May 29, 2006 IP
  19. Ferrarislave

    Ferrarislave Peon

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    #79
    Woah, thread got out of hand. Hehe, it's ok! I will apply for DMOZ and see how it goes. I will most certaintly not pay some curropt editor to list my sites in the DMOZ!
     
    Ferrarislave, Jun 1, 2006 IP
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  20. brizzie

    brizzie Peon

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    #80
    Well that will save you getting your sites a permanent ban by not offering to pay. ;)
     
    brizzie, Jun 2, 2006 IP