I heard something today that really caught my attention. I think it goes for everyone involved: Act your wage!
I'm with Trump. Fuck the bail out. The crisis will bring down the price of oil and devalue the investments of those that we buy that oil from. OIL is what drives our economy. I've been saying "ENERGY" in fact for some time now. Its energy that our economy is backed by and energy that drives it, not gold, not silver, nothing but energy. Let the shit that is going to collapse and be done with it. The price of oil will drop to $20 and the dollar will rise on its own as a result. All a "bailout" does is restore temporary confidence in an already over bloated market, and gives banks money to lend again to idiots that will not pay it back. In addition, Mark to Market needs to be eliminated. I think Trump is right... There is a silver lining to this. Oil will indeed drop to near nothing. Look, OPEC and the Arab terrorist cartels that run it are taking a HUGE hit right now as a result. This bill will bail them out as well. And they are the last ones that need to be bailed out. Its the financial confidence that keeps them able to fix price. Take that and their value on their investments away (which btw they bought with our oil dollars) and we stand to win in the end by way of cheap energy. Is there anyone here that really truly believes that Google is worth or was ever worth near $500/share? NO.. Come on... There are not enough assets or cash in relation to their stock price to meet that market price... Get rid of Mark to Market and that problem goes away. Fuck the bail out and let the market cleanse itself by re-valuating the stock prices in relation to the actual worth of a company. Things are not going to collapse around us, and there will not be a depression. Hell, we have yet to see a recession. We have however seen prices of homes, oil and other commodities manipulated rather than aloud to rise and fall based on market conditions and inflation. We have real good chance to end these entitlement programs of Carter and Clinton once and for all and fix the damage they have done by simply letting them go away. The price of oil goes up every time OPEC thinks the bail out is coming. The bailout falls through and oil drops 10 bucks a day... Oil is driving our economy, not the housing industry, not the market... Nothing else other then OIL... We are spending more money on OIL than we have lost, or will continue to lose due to the bad choices of fuck tards in the banking industries.
Who is to blame? Lets face it everyone. Despite Mia's claims there is a grotesque debt problem in the US. Last month alone there were over 100,000 foreclosures in California and over 44,000 foreclosures in Florida alone. Mia, that is after a drop in gasolene prices. Too many very bad mortgages. Way to many. Over a $1 trillion in subprimes alone, many of which saw big market jumps in 2006 and beyond while the crazy housing price escalation boom halted in its tracks. All the other issues, such as energy price increases contributed to the problem, but the problem was there to explode. Blame Congress, but blame all of them. Take a look at how much Congress takes in from the finance/real estate/insurance lobbies. Take a look at how much the industry's spend to get their special interests taken care of. Take a look at the volume of consumers who jumped at sub primes. Even as subprimes fueled new home purchases, the volume of subprimes far exceeds new home development. Homes were refinanced with high priced subprimes and traditional mortgages were dropped as part of the flipping game and trying to constantly refinance. Blame the mortgage industry for selling the hell out of these loans. They paid more in fees. Blame the administration for not watching the explosion of subprimes. Blame the past administration for similarly not watching the subprime explosion which started in the late 1990's. Blame the country for going overboard on debt. Blame the finance industry for having critical big players being heavily leveraged with debt assets that were hugely risky. Blame the debt rating agencies!!!! Check this out.!!! Want to see something astounding: This link, first supplied by Pizzaman..http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/04/wa-mu-alt-pool-deteriorates-further.html details a large pool of mortgages securitized and packaged by WAMU. First off, month by month the mortgage pool deteriorates as mortgages go into delinquency then bankruptcy. Here is the astounding part. Less than 12% of the mortgages had full documentation. Yet the big accumulation of debt was rated AAA. If that is true it reeks of criminal behavior. Virtually 90% of the credit worthiness of an enormous package of debt/investment was sold with grossly overstated value. That is the type of thing that literally crushes the trust and believability of markets. I'd investigate the credit rating and credit insurance industries to see if there was criminal behavior and paybacks with the sellers for criminal behavior. Its grossly misrepresenting the values of billions of dollars of so-called investments. The blame is all over the place but while all need to reevaluate what they were doing I'd look hard at the interaction of sellers and credit rating institutions to see if they were conspiring to sell the hell out of lousy debt.
I have to agree with you GRIM. The republicans do deserve some of the blame. And although we might disagree on some things I have to say you're honest so we can reason But I'll still say the Dems deserve most of the blame because it was their bad legislation that put us in this mess. GOP was not in power for the last two years. And no one can put one bill that Bush made that caused this mess. Well McCain who voted against the first bill just voted for this one so we'll have to see. Seems like something is happening up there in Washington and I don't like it. Either way something is being done. Perfect arguments. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Glad to see someone can at least admit both sides are to blame. Did the dems legislation have something to do with it? Very good chance. Who has been in power for 7 years now however who was able to base policies off of that legislation? A two way street caused this mess IMHO. GOP has still been in power, they still hold the presidency and the dems hold such a minor control over the congress, with the GOP holding the presidency it effectively neuters them. Policy alone can cause issues, a president does not need to make an actual bill in order to cause problems.
The problem hasn't just been in recent years though when the dems were in charge, it's been an ongoing thing for a lot longer, both parties are equally to blame and blaming one over the other is foolish and just showing people's one sided bias.
How long have the Democrats controlled the house? Not only that but in 2001 Bush asked that Fannie and Freddie get more strict oversight. That was shot down by none other than Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. Again in '04 he asked again that they be monitored because things looked trouble. Again it was shot down. Than in 06' he made the same claim only to be shot down by them again. Over 4 times Bush asked that the mortgages of these companies be scrutinized and he was shot down all four times by the House who has been democrat controlled for the past half a decade. Not only that but the little lawyer named Obama was also responsible for getting people who could not qualify for their mortgages lending approval.
Exactly... And all the while, anything Bush has wanted, they have given him with regards to the war. Did they not run a couple years ago on the premise that they would take back the government and get us out of Iraq? Not only has Bush asked for tighter regulations of Fannie and Freddie, but so too did McCain, over and over and over again! People like Barney Frank and Maxine Waters said everything was fine and kept up the status quo, all the while padding their bank accounts and campaign funds with generous Fannie and Freddie contributions. Well, at least we finally know what it is that he has done in his short career.
This video ties Obama straight to the crisis we are experiencing on Wall Street. Pretty damning to Obama. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2yaFl_CmTE
And who could forget: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZVw3no2A4&feature=iv&annotation_id=event_597487 and http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080919/OPINION03/809190316/1322/OPINION0301 its all here: http://www.ofheo.gov search for "Report of the Special Examination of Fannie Mae"
Not much recently, the Republicans have controlled congress far longer. It was not always 'shot down' just under Democratic control. Just because a bill is called a fancy name does not equate to it being 'oversight as well'. Not to forget I thought Republicans were against regulations? http://realtytimes.com/rtpages/20020624_bushplan.htm Read above, it was not just one wide who was responsible for this mess.
I am not saying its only the democrats who are responsible. But I am saying that its MAINLY the democrats. Hope I made myself clear.
"Report of the Special Examination of Fannie Mae" Its pretty clear where the blame lies. Started with Carter and reignited by Clinton. Supported by like minded people who favor entitlements.
I honestly don't see it being 'mainly' either side, I see it being both sides just in different ways.
Here is a direct link to the report so people can actually download it and read it. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...Go1hON7tRqzCpSoZg&sig2=6CikiTfy6hzKhUI4xccVxw no acrobat? Here is the HTML link: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...O5aO46U_q7JNJo7pQ&sig2=FEm1ylOrK8AajUV3rDTvmQ
These are among the most absurd partisan comments alive. Let's see. Carter was out of office by 1980. Let me repeat that....1980. Clinton was out of office by 2000. Additionally there was a Republican majority congress essentially since the mid 1990's through 2006. Oh yeah.....the financial blowup and crisis occurred in 2008. Other than pure partisanship....something doesn't jive here.
Here you are showing your youth and inexperience, or is it ignorance? Jimmy carter created the Community Redevelopment Act which is what originally forced Fannie, Freddie and other lenders to make high risk loans to un-qualified borrowers. The program was later accelerated by Bill Clinton. You honestly believe that this problem and Fannie and Freddie just magically occurred in the last couple years? Sheesh... What does not "jive" here is your obvious lack of research, oversight and depth when it comes to this issue. BTW, Fannie and Freddie were making donations to community organizers like ACORN - (Obama was their legal council), and of course they gave Barrack over $126,000.00 over the last three years. Let's see.. I was alive when Carter and Clinton were in office.