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Islam,The Religion of Peace: Thread to remove misconceptions!

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by mrfazee, Sep 17, 2008.

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  1. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #101
    And to think his intention with this thread was to "remove misconceptions". All he done is raise more reasons to criticise islam and confirm what we all thought.
     
    stOx, Sep 19, 2008 IP
  2. homebizseo

    homebizseo Peon

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    #102
    No he "remove misconceptions"
     
    homebizseo, Sep 19, 2008 IP
  3. lightless

    lightless Notable Member

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    #103
    One of my favourite heroes is a muslim, but then again it probably has nothing much to do with his religion and more to do with his behaviour and character.

    Anyway in my opinion, Buddhism is the religion of peace, not Islam.
     
    lightless, Sep 19, 2008 IP
  4. robjones

    robjones Notable Member

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    #104
    FAZEE: Firstly let me get somthing clear, Islam prohibits homosexuality (like most religions do including christanity)
    The difference is while Christians might consider it immoral, they don't even suggest we implement a state sponsored death penalty for it, nor can they.

    FAZEE: and therefore in islamic law there is a law that prohibits homosexuality since the threat it poses to humanity,
    We are free to worship as we please, but we are not free to insist our government murder those that don't meet our religious standards. The threat imposed to humanity by homosexuality is pretty much limited to our ability to wear white after Labor Day.

    FAZEE: so if you break any law you should be punished and since we consider this a very important law the punishment is severe. Anybody who breaks any law can be considered a criminal.
    If you outlawed having brown hair I'd be a criminal I guess, but it would simply mean the law is wrong, not that I am. On the bright side the evidence is disappearing slowly with age. Whether homosexuality is a genetic predisposition or a result of social factors... it harms nobody outside the relationship and being IN the relationship is their option. Weird thing to kill someone for.

    FAZEE: My arguement that homosexuality is a threat to humanity can not be proven wrong
    Several here already have proven it wrong. The percentage of homosexuals is a small part of the world population, so it cannot affect the ability of humanity to reproduce.

    FAZEE:and the reason why the number of homos have remained small is simply because of laws like these and simmilar laws have made sure that it does not spread too much.
    Again, it isn't a contagious disease. Read a textbook instead of just the Koran.

    FAZEE: In the US tell me how many states Gay marriage is legal? As the number rises so will the number of Homos. There is a simmilar case around the world.
    If you're suggesting allowing them to marry will cause them to reproduce, you seriously need a course in how the human reproductive system works.

    DEATH PENALTY:
    Supporting the death penalty for something like murder is debatable, and reasonable people will disagree on it.

    Supporting the death penalty for violating religious tenets is centuries behind the learning curve and is NOT a practice of a "peaceful religion". So far the only thing you've killed here is your own case.
     
    robjones, Sep 19, 2008 IP
  5. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #105
    Then a lawyer said, "But what of our Laws, master?"

    And he answered:

    You delight in laying down laws,

    Yet you delight more in breaking them.

    Like children playing by the ocean who build sand-towers with constancy and then destroy them with laughter.

    But while you build your sand-towers the ocean brings more sand to the shore,

    And when you destroy them, the ocean laughs with you.

    Verily the ocean laughs always with the innocent.

    But what of those to whom life is not an ocean, and man-made laws are not sand-towers,

    But to whom life is a rock, and the law a chisel with which they would carve it in their own likeness?

    What of the cripple who hates dancers?

    What of the ox who loves his yoke and deems the elk and deer of the forest stray and vagrant things?

    What of the old serpent who cannot shed his skin, and calls all others naked and shameless?

    And of him who comes early to the wedding-feast, and when over-fed and tired goes his way saying that all feasts are violation and all feasters law-breakers?

    What shall I say of these save that they too stand in the sunlight, but with their backs to the sun?

    They see only their shadows, and their shadows are their laws.

    And what is the sun to them but a caster of shadows?

    And what is it to acknowledge the laws but to stoop down and trace their shadows upon the earth?

    But you who walk facing the sun, what images drawn on the earth can hold you?

    You who travel with the wind, what weathervane shall direct your course?

    What man's law shall bind you if you break your yoke but upon no man's prison door?

    What laws shall you fear if you dance but stumble against no man's iron chains?

    And who is he that shall bring you to judgment if you tear off your garment yet leave it in no man's path?

    People of Orphalese, you can muffle the drum, and you can loosen the strings of the lyre, but who shall command the skylark not to sing?
     
    browntwn, Sep 19, 2008 IP
  6. mrfazee

    mrfazee Peon

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    #106
    Rob Jones i am not saying that they can reproduce, if the could they would not pose a threat to humanity, by making somthing legal you are saying it is ok to do it, so people who would not become homosexuals because they thought it is not right will now think differently that in turn will increase the number of homos!
     
    mrfazee, Sep 19, 2008 IP
  7. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #107
    What should the punishment be for Muslims who decide they no longer wish to be Muslims and decide to have no faith or to practice another religion?

    That is also against the law in Islam - should they also be punished with death?
     
    browntwn, Sep 19, 2008 IP
  8. mrfazee

    mrfazee Peon

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    #108
    Well if they leave Islam and turn to some other religion and declare that publicaly being in an Islamic land, yes an execution will be ordered in order to prevent them from spreading mischeif in the land.
     
    mrfazee, Sep 19, 2008 IP
  9. robjones

    robjones Notable Member

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    #109
    I give up, where is the support for the idea that homosexuals "threaten humanity". What threat do they pose. You have indicated we cannot disprove it while making zero effort to prove it other than say it is so.
     
    robjones, Sep 19, 2008 IP
  10. wisdomtool

    wisdomtool Moderator Staff

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    #110
    IMHO there is no correlation between leaving islam and spreading mischief. I totally do not see your logic here. At least in my country, there is freedom of religion or lack of religion too. No one gets killed leaving a religion for another.

     
    wisdomtool, Sep 19, 2008 IP
  11. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #111
    Would you accept it if non Islamic lands thought it was a good idea to kill Muslims living in their lands to prevent them from spreading (Islam) mischief?

    I would not as it goes against the very notion of freedom. You seem to support murder and denial of basic rights so long as it is in furtherance of your religion. I will of course expect nothing less than a hypocritical reply where something is okay when Muslims do it to others but would be opposed when it is done to them.

    You have made Islam look worse in my eyes.
     
    browntwn, Sep 19, 2008 IP
  12. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #112
    Your attempt to present islam as a religion of peace has been an epic fail mrfazee. all you have done is confirm our suspicions that islam is violent and barbaric.

    It might be easier if you tell us which people wont be executed.
     
    stOx, Sep 19, 2008 IP
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  13. GRIM

    GRIM Prominent Member

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    #113
    I don't think 'thinking' like you do is 'right' but I certainly don't want it to be 'illegal'

    BTW I'd rather have a drink with a 'homo' than someone like you ;)
     
    GRIM, Sep 19, 2008 IP
  14. wisdomtool

    wisdomtool Moderator Staff

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    #114
    When I first saw your post, I was glad that it seemed to be trying to clear up the name of Islam, but it seemed that the thread does remove some of my misconceptions, but not the way you want to put it, you have achieved the latter part of your subject proper which seemed to further contradict the former part.
     
    wisdomtool, Sep 19, 2008 IP
  15. atvking

    atvking Active Member

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    #115
    i like how everybody ignores the 140.000 dead from a decadent lifestyle every year in america and makes a big deal out of 150 executed in saudi arabia...(from those 150 only a small part was homos)...

    2 countries maybe 3 islamic countries total execute homos this does not even make 5% of the total islamic population...in all the other countries this is not so...homos are not killed in the vast majority of the muslim world...this is fact...

    also may i remind the western world that reproduction and moral values are essential for survival in most of the islamic world...if you dont work you die...if you dont have children you will die when you cant work because theres no such thing as wellfare or even pensions in most parts of the 3rd world...a society that does not reproduce and function will die...

    a society that wastes money on alcohol,drugs,designer clothes, decadent behavior, strip bars ect ect will perish! there is NO MONEY TO WASTE...in some countries 100$/month is a big salary for some 3rd world people...even 10$...there is no "lavish farmland" its all sand! (or most of it)...

    2 homosexuals who do not have kids will end up as 2 starving old guys when they cant work any more since they cant have children...their whole life they will set a "bad example" to all the people who are making an effort to make ends meet and resist temptations of any kind...forget the US lifestyle and conditions this is another world completely...

    a chain is only as storng as its weakest link and in the desert and in poverty that chain is very very important...mcfazees explanations may resemble religious propaganda but you have to keep in mind that their culture has no contact with alcohol drugs decadence and they speak of it from their point of view and through their religion...

    an american once told me that i do not live in a free world if i have not been offended by something...this is all well and true in the USA where if you dont want to work you can go ask for wellfare and live like a parasite...the 3rd world cant afford "gay rights"...the third world cant even afford clean water to drink...get real this is not the USA or europe...

    i personally dont see the big deal in homos doing what they do behind closed doors if it will be for a better good...they know the law and the penalty...dont break the law...
     
    atvking, Sep 19, 2008 IP
  16. robjones

    robjones Notable Member

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    #116
    I agree with wisdomtool... My initial warm fuzzy post was written prior to me hearing the calm explanations that indicate said peace is accomplished by making it a capital offense to violate your religious beliefs. Guess any country could accomplish internal "peace" in that fashion (where "peace" = those who object are dead), but I don't wanna try it out.

    Kudos to you, you definitely cleared up some misconceptions I had.
     
    robjones, Sep 19, 2008 IP
  17. mrfazee

    mrfazee Peon

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    #117
    What everybody does not understand here is that i am not going to lie and make things up to make Islam seem better, the religion is so great that I dont need to do that, unfortunately the only thing i was questioned on this thread was the punishments. WHY DONT YOU ALL ASK SOME OTHER THINGS ABOUT ISLAM AND I WILL GIVE THEM TO YOU UPFRONT!

    Islam is strict for a reason, and i can prove that to you! If any one of those who criticize the religion here read the Quran just once (with the explanation) you will realise its greatness. Ask me somthing about Science and i will give you the miracles that prove the greatness of Islam, the scientific facts that were revealed in the Quran years before there discovery. Ask me about the rules of war in Islam and i will tell you how civilized Islam teaches us to be even during times of war. So if you pick up just one topic (punishments) and say that the religion is wrong then that would not be a fair assumption.
     
    mrfazee, Sep 19, 2008 IP
  18. homebizseo

    homebizseo Peon

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    #118

    How many Muslim women can we marry if we convert? :cool:
     
    homebizseo, Sep 19, 2008 IP
  19. cientificoloco

    cientificoloco Well-Known Member

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    #119
    There is one thing, that is crucial to all this. You need to believe that there is this allah god and that this guy mohammed was really a holy person in order to start making sense of all this (nonsense) you are presenting us. In an islam-ruling country, those who believe will be happily hating homosexuals and stoning cheaters, while those who don't believe will be oppressed by rules that don't make sense to them. So for an islamic system to work as a peaceful system, you have to either believe or die (or leave the country). Very peaceful indeed.

    Regarding science, we'd love to hear your 'proofs', but let me anticipate that the moon wasn't split, that water well in the desert is not miraculous and the earth is not an egg.
     
    cientificoloco, Sep 19, 2008 IP
  20. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #120

    I will give you some respect for not trying to water down what Islam tells you. It says to murder your own brother if he decides to leave the religion. It says to murder your own son if he is a homosexual.

    I am sorry but I am not interested in idle chit chat about your religion. I am sure there are some very nice aspects to it. You put forth the proposition that it is a religion of peace and you have also admitted that you agree it is okay to kill a homosexual or a brother who converts from Islam. You have disproved your own thesis. You can keep trying to justify it to yourself but to those of us who have tasted freedom - we have no desire to go backwards in history and trade our rights for your religion.
     
    browntwn, Sep 19, 2008 IP
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