Loose Change 911

Thanx SEbasic.. I will give it a look see on my Intel Based Mac Mini ! If that fails, I'll whip out the old PC Laptop!

 

I'm using Camino now almost exclusively (kicks the pants off FF), but no plugins for it... Still searching..

 

It's old news, others already *have* argued what they say.

 

Well I tried.. FireFox, Camino, Safari... Nothing works.. Real seems to want money for their crappy product, so I give up. If it ain't quicktime its crap. My 2 cents.

 

You really need to read your history before making a statement like that.

When the Romans formed the first Republic, they looked at the known forms of government. Dictatorships often became cruel tyrannies; pure Democracies either devolved into mob rule (French Revolution) or elected socialist dictators (Adolph Hitler), and Oligarchies become self-serving (England).

A Republican form of government has the checks and balances to prevent that more than any other form of government. Read your Constitution - the USA is not a Democracy, it is a Republic. A Democracy can grant or revoke rights - they can throw anyone in jail just by voting on it (and it has happened). A Republican form of government is specifically set up to DEFEND rights. It amazes me how people that rally against the Electoral Congress don't even bother to go out and grasp that - and, I wonder if they would still be against the E.C. if they knew that it practically guarantees that in the USA only Conservatives would be elected?

 

Thank God someone is on the ball!

Correct. The US is a Representive Republic.

Great post!

 

I watched the first few minutes until my B.S. counter went off. My initial comments:

The video does what any good movie does - it takes irrelevant information and puts it together to create meaning where before none existed. Example: Operation Northwoods, which was requested by JFK. Kennedy had an excellent grasp of domestic affairs, but his foreign policy expertise has been compared to the pointy-eared manager in Dilbert, whose motto was "anything I don't understand must be easy".

The video deliberately implies that Kennedy fired Leominster as a result of submitting Operation Northwood. In reality, Kennedy fired lots of brilliant men because they didn't know to "do what I mean, not what I say". Remember, JFK never once held a job, had the fictional "Profiles in Courage" entirely ghostwritten - this is a man that never bought a loaf of bread, never even paid a phone bill! So, it's reckless to even try to bring in a 40-year old memo that was requested and rejected by a Chief Executive that had a chaotic management policy.

The other thing that set off my B.S. alarm was the mention of Anthony Sampson's article alleging that when Osama bin Laden was receiving medical treatment in the mid-east, he met with a member of the CIA. The information actually came from the (anti-Semitic) French Intelligence (yes, a contradiction in terms), an organization that lost any shred of credibility they might have had when the bombed the Rainbow Warrior on July 10, 1985. OTOH, French Intelligence denied Sampson's allegations.

At that point, I decided I'd had enough of Dylan Avery's propaganda film.

I can give you part of the truth of 9/11, and it is this: anyone that flies coach or business class in the USA and in Europe knows that airport security in the USA is horrible. As a Bostonian, I can tell you that we had been complaining about the minimum-wage security attendants at Boston's Logan airport for years. The security for American Airlines has been particularly a joke - if you're first class (like the 9/11 terrorists were), you get whisked through an expedited security check (like the 9/11 terrorists were) which is a lot more, uh, "forgiving"

Never blame on a conspiracy what you can assign to individual laziness and incompetence.

 

Well Conwin, Although I appreciate your eliquant reply, without having watched the whole documentary, a lot of what you are saying is farly insignificant.

The documentary presents what a lot of people would refer to as compelling evidence, however you have decided to ignore this based on the first five mins of the film.

At least Mia and GTech watched it

Mia, it's a shame you can't watch it because it's really quite interesting.

I'm on a G4 Powerbook running OS 10.4.6 if it helps, it *is* buggy, but I can get it to play...

I'l have a dig around for a QT version, although I would imagine it's unlikely I'd find one.

 

First of all, the first five minutes of any independent film are when you present your strongest stuff. Of course, you don't know that, or you woudn't have brought that up, would you?

Look, if I smell B.S., I don't have to actually look and taste it to know that there is actually B.S. around. Please don't try to sway me with your weak rhetoric - "a lot of people" are often wrong. "A lot of people" think there are aliens on other planets. "A lot of people" think that the Navy made the U.S.S. Philadelphia disappear (it was a scam to sell books).

"A lot of people" - no, let's make that the vast majority of people - feel that 911 was planned and executed by Muslim terrorists. Compared to that, when you write "a lot of people", what you really mean are "very few people", don't you??? So, when you write "a lot of people", you are lying, aren't you? The only question is - what is your real motivation for lying to us, hmmmm?

Really, SEbasic, when I offer you facts, and all you can offer me are insults, a lot of what you are saying is fairly insignificant, isn't it?

"Compelling evidence"? Hardly. when the first few minutes offer false evidence, I have no reason to believe that the director suddenly has a shock of honesty later on. Unless you feel enough courage to actually dispute what I had written about JFK and Sampson? Ah, well, that's asking for too much of you, isn't it? "A lot of people" might call you a weakling for promoting your own personal bigotry as if it was facts. Or do you really think you can dispute what I wrote about JFK and Sampson?

Do you want to throw some facts at me? Or would you rather throw in the towel? You might want to ask me my profession first.

I think I can guess what someone like you might post next. Go ahead!

 

Conwin, I couldn't care less what your profession is...

I also fail to see where I insulted you (Point it out please)...

None of the 'fact' you have posted has any relevance to main points raised in the film, so I fail to see where you're going with this.

If you want to contribute to a conversation about the film, I suggest you actually watch it.

It's funny that you've taken such an aggressive tone ~ I don't believe I have done with you.

Feeling a little defensive?

Hahaha. Goodness, you really are desperate.

 

So operation northwoods is perfectly relevant, it proves the government (for many decades) has at the very least been planning terrorist actions on it's own soldiers and citizens to cause a pretext for war. It's 100% undeniable proof.

Prove it

Really? Prove it... my BS alarm is going off!

Once again, your babbling with your opinions. You don't know if the french intelligence is true or not, you weren't there were you?

Unless you prove these accusations your making, your one sided comments from watching 5 minutes of an entire film, are pointless and irrelevant to discussion.

 

Yo-Yo, do you believe in the french authorities? Not even the french people do so.

 

For once I can agree with you, although I highly doubt that they would lie about Bin Laden receiving treatment ~ there would be no political or financial gain in doing so...

 

There's a difference in the french police and the french foreign intelligence service. I don't think the french people have been protesting them

 

Yes it would. The french government is anti-American.

 

No it's not...

Latehorn, you really need to grow up mate... I think even Mia, GTech and co would agree that pretty much everything you post is complete bollocks.

*back on ignore*

 

Ok, so how else would you explain the constant french aggression toward American policys?

*back to freedom fries*

 

I have to say the Corwin posts are some of the best and most well constructed I have seen to date. With the exception of Airport Security, I agree on every point.

Why airport security? While lax, and certainly not overly invasive pre-9/11, do remember one simple fact. Even if they strip searched every inch of each of the terrorist scum that passed through security, they would have found no reason to detain them. Knives, (up to 3 inches) were allowed on commercial aircraft. I have always traveled with a Swiss Army knife, in some cases, Xactos, or even box cutters.... There was nothing illegal about the instruments they carried, and certainly no reason to suspect that they might use them for something out of the ordinary.

So lax security or not, it is not like they would have been detained, or had a knife confiscated. The only time over the years I have seen anything confiscated by the 3rd grade level educated security at the airport was when they found that was I had was something they wanted for themselves.

This crap continues to this day. TSA (the scum bag security firm at the airports) felt that my Toshiba Laptop was something I should part with permanently. On that same flight I carried on a Swiss Army knife.

Anyway, in the end, you can carry a box cutter on a commercial flight all you want, whether it is legal or not. Why? Because if you try to take the plane over with it, or anything for that matter, everyone (and I mean everyone) from a 80 year old granny, to a 10 year old kid is going to kick the ever living shit out of you. One thing these morons that took over the flights on 9/11 really screwed up was hijacking. I doubt there will ever be another hijacked flight again. If you know you are going to die anyway, you have no reason not to act.

 

You're kidding right?

Did you get compensation back for it?

What about the data?

 

No.

US Air cut me a check. I bought a nice new ACER with a 15" Wide Screen... It's the one I should whip out and try to view that Real Player stuff on...

I never leave anything I cannot replace on my laptops while traveling, nor do I leave sensitive data on them. I also keep my PowerPoints and other stuff on a thumbdrive that stays with me, in case this happens. There is always another computer you can use somewhere.