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You've got it all wrong... it's not PR that you want!!!

Discussion in 'Google' started by altyfc, Jun 17, 2008.

  1. iatbm

    iatbm Prominent Member

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    #21
    It is not ? Tell that to people that sell links for thousands ;)
     
    iatbm, Jun 18, 2008 IP
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  2. malcolm1

    malcolm1 Prominent Member

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    #22
    Wow your kidding right? :rolleyes:

    Serps = sales

    PR = retards that want to sell Page rank

    laterz
    malcolm
     
    malcolm1, Jun 18, 2008 IP
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  3. dcristo

    dcristo Illustrious Member

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    #23
    So your agreeing? If you were being sarcastic, it wasnt very funny :D
     
    dcristo, Jun 18, 2008 IP
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  4. dave9713

    dave9713 Active Member

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    #24
    Before quoting empty words why dont you take real facts into consideration on what real PR is?

    Toolbar PR is useless unless you want to make a few bucks selling links. The real PR is a lot more complicated than a green bar and is totally different compared to what you see. That is what determines rankings, not the stupid firefox addition.
     
    dave9713, Jun 19, 2008 IP
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  5. cashprior

    cashprior Peon

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    #25
    PR is not important, is just nice to have.. Rankings are the most important thing.

    That's true for a little while, until google finds out, and drops your PR...
     
    cashprior, Jun 19, 2008 IP
  6. mrinal

    mrinal Peon

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    #26
    When you get high PR then obviously Google algorithms would give preferences to your site than others with low PR. PR has to do a lot of things with hits from google tough serp is keyword dependent.
     
    mrinal, Jun 19, 2008 IP
  7. snowbird

    snowbird Notable Member

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    #27
    Those are far from empty words. Google specifically states that PR is their gauge of the importance of a Webpage. Unless one has a friend inside Google, what you see on the toolbar is the only publicly available general gauge to a page's health in Google. At most, that data is 3 months old. After a PR export its as little as 2-3 weeks old. If one want's detailed information, then they can do a more detailed analysis of a page. But if the toolbar has little or no green, most won't bother spending the time to do a detailed analysis of the page.

    Ask the SEO Pro's around here. Those $4,000 monthly budgets they get are not for submitting to article directories, web directories, etc. Much of that money is used to obtain/maintain quality links on high PR/ranking relevant sites. They do their best to get free links, but money is a good motivator to get a site to link back to their client's site. And I'll tell ya, they are not dropping $100 a month to get a link on a PR 0 site. Nor are they wasting their time begging for a free backlink on a PR 0 site. :D

    When you say that PR is useful only to those wanting to make a few bucks selling links, you are correct to some degree. $10 sitewide links on sites without 50 outbound links on every page is a clear case of the QCB. But don't confuse the link sales forum with the professionals that purchase high quality links on relevant/high PR sites. It's nothing to spend $2,000+ a month to help a client rank, or maintain a position, for a single keyword.

    Google clearly states the purpose and benefits of PR. SEO Pro's know this all too well. Those high quality links, coming from high PR sites, are worth their weight in Gold. They will move a site up the ranks much further then links from low PR/importance pages.

    Of course PR is not the only factor one should consider. Relevancy is the most important factor. Does the keyword you want to rank for appear in the page title, what's the density for the keyword, is the keyword in the page's outbound URL's, etc.

    I'm through debating this. Those that know more then Google or those that provide professional SEO services for a living need to lose their subjective opinions and look at the facts. And the fact is when you are trying to save a company money from spending $1-3k a day on Adwords, you are not going to improve their organic positions if you ignore PR.

    Google says "webmasters can improve the rank of their sites by increasing the number of high-quality sites that link to their pages." In the context of this post, such high quality links do come from closely related high PR sites.
     
    snowbird, Jun 19, 2008 IP
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  8. cashprior

    cashprior Peon

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    #28
    SEOs don't get quality links to build PR, they get them to make websites more relevant for specific searches. I'm not saying that the PR value has absolutely nothing to do with the serps, but it doesn't make that much difference. There are other *much* more important factors.

    Take a real life example: Google "business loans" (without the quotes) and you will find that the 1st result is a website that has a PR4 and the second result is the SBA.GOV website with a PR8 (very authoritative website)... come to your own conclusions.

    The PR value is NOT that important anymore. Period.
     
    cashprior, Jun 19, 2008 IP
  9. Lakota

    Lakota Peon

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    #29
    Thanks for everyone's input on PR. I think I've been taking it too serious lately.
     
    Lakota, Jun 19, 2008 IP
  10. codyturk

    codyturk Well-Known Member

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    #30
    Someone pretty much said it. It really depends on what your aiming for.

    Are you looking for a higher PR so that you can sale links or are you looking for good rankings so you can generate good ad revenue.

    It all depends on what your aiming for.
     
    codyturk, Jun 19, 2008 IP
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  11. snowbird

    snowbird Notable Member

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    #31
    Hmmm, thought I noted that when I posted:

    Your comparision - a .gov vs a .com

    The keyphrase "business loans" appears 0 times on the SBA site. On the merchant loans site is appears 5+ times. Ungrouped, they both have the keyphrase on their sites. Regardless, both sites are ranking according to allinanchor:business loans. Such a comparison indicates Merchant Loans has a better link profile for the keyphrase business loans. I viewed some of the backlinks, and I can safely say PR is certainly an important factor here despite SBA's poor onpage SEO for that keyphrase.

    If any of us tried to rank a page similar to SBA's, we would not get anywhere near their position. This is a clear case of a page that is ranking well because of its authority/PR. It's the same reason why spammers can post on blogger and rank high for very competitive keywords. PR is distributed down through the site, and that allows internal pages to rank well despite having poor onpage SEO and a low quality backlink profile (to the spam page).

    I'm open to opinions, so I must ask what do you feel is important?

    Google knows quality Websites are built for people and not search engines. So Google relies heavily on backlinks to determine where a site should rank. PR is still an important factor here. I'm not saying onpage SEO is worthless, because it is important as well.

    For Google's internal PR system to be effective, it must be assigned on a keyword/phrase to page basis. Too many people try to generalize PR, and those tend to be the people that discount the importance of PR. If you drill down to page specifics, you will see PR is still an important factor used to rank sites.
     
    snowbird, Jun 19, 2008 IP
  12. IEmailer.com

    IEmailer.com Well-Known Member

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    #32
    I Agree on the above, it's all about how you want to benefit out of your website !
     
    IEmailer.com, Jun 19, 2008 IP
  13. nofullstop

    nofullstop Peon

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    #33

    mine is a the right example of that

    nofullstop.com
     
    nofullstop, Jun 19, 2008 IP
  14. allout

    allout Prominent Member

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    #34
    The most important thing is to get quality traffic. PR has its place. It is far from being the most important but if you look for back links, what is one of the main things you look at? PR! Look at any link sales, most webmaster will pay nothing for a PR0 site even if they can deliver tons of traffic. Look at many directories, they proudly state their PR so people add links.

    We webmasters make PR important. It is one of the few physical ratings we can see and show off. No matter how many deny it, we all want higher PR sites. It looks good, it is good for advertising and link sales, and it adds value when you try to sell a domain or website.

    The most important thing that webmasters should be looking for is where am I going to get quality traffic and how am I going to rank for good keywords not just rank for any keywords. However, no matter how many times we argue the point, you will never change the obsession with PR.
     
    allout, Jun 19, 2008 IP
  15. dave9713

    dave9713 Active Member

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    #35
    Firstly without sounding big headed I consider myself a real SEO "Pro".

    You just won my argument in your first paragraph, "PR is how google assesses the importance of a webpage", however it doesn't use it it to arrange the SERP's. Google's one aim is to provide the most relevant search results to there users, honestly if you believe the most relevant results are the ones with the highest PR you are v.wrong!

    Ofcourse PR is what people pay for, this is because it is the only metric we have to assess whether google values that pages strength due to linking patterns. Once again, just because its got PR this doesn't mean it's meets all the points that the real algorythm considers and uses to produce search results.

    You keep saying ask any pro, well if you ask one real pro if they are trying to build PR for there clients and they say yes because they will rank with it then in my opinion there an idiot!

    People have become obsessed with this and used the small bit of information google gives us as if it is the most important thing in the world. I am a full time SEO Consultant and have been for the last 5 years, sure when I am buying links i look at the PR of the page however I have never bothered checking my clients.

    So what is the point of PR?

    To assess a pages strength because of its linking patterns.

    Apart from that all its good for is selling links!
     
    dave9713, Jun 20, 2008 IP
  16. snowbird

    snowbird Notable Member

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    #36
    Dave,

    This thread has grown long, but I have touched on the issues you noted. I just have not detailed them in each post. You did quote me as saying:

    Relevancy is a broad term as used in this post, but I was more detailed (but not complete) in my previous posts.

    The arguement is not that PR is the only factor in ranking. The point is that a backlink, with the proper anchor text, from a high PR relevant site provides many times the SEO benefits as a backlink from a similar page with little to no PR. This crushes the concept that PR is useless...
     
    snowbird, Jun 20, 2008 IP
  17. John.

    John. Active Member

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    #37
    Yes correct.
     
    John., Jun 20, 2008 IP
  18. dave9713

    dave9713 Active Member

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    #38
    :) Yes this thread is getting longer and longer.

    I understand what you mean, PR is not useless (I never claimed it to be) but it is not what sorts rankings, and it is not what people should be aiming for unless they want to sell text links.

    I guess I am just getting annoyed at the buzz which has grown over the few years over PR.

    Best of luck Snowbird!
     
    dave9713, Jun 20, 2008 IP
  19. snowbird

    snowbird Notable Member

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    #39
    There are a lot of people that tend to generalize PR and make conclusions based on that. Meaning if a PR 5 site ranks lower then a PR 3, it must mean that PR is worthless. Such generalizations are too broad and do not look into the finer details of each site's backlink profile. In many cases the reason why a lower PR site outranks a higher PR site is because its backlink profile for a specific keyword is of a higher quality.

    I think a lot of the buzz about PR could be set aside if people realized PR is one measurement of many. This measurement is not a replacement for performing adequate keyword level research, which is something many are too lazy or stubborn to do. :)

    I agree that aiming for PR is worthless. Ranking client sites for their chosen keywords is what matters. But in the process of ranking for those keywords, backlinks most certainly will be acquired from relevant pages with good PR. And because of that, client sites will see their PR improve even though that was not a goal.

    On that note, I think I can agree with Dave on most points. It's just my supporting info is scattered about a few posts. :)
     
    snowbird, Jun 20, 2008 IP
  20. pipes

    pipes Prominent Member

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    #40
    Nope, its definately PR that i want :) because most of my customers insist on it, no pr, no business, no business not eating, so PR it is still. :)
     
    pipes, Jun 20, 2008 IP