The benefit of a directory over a search engine

Interesting points, and I feel Jamie was a bit harsh, but if you'll allow me to comment and possibly salvage some clear facts that most know to be true, then hopefully the truth will come out and some may benefit.

Neb's reference to

is true, come on folks, we know it goes on and I'd bet many on here are at it, so why the big pretence on forums all the time hmmm? People aren't stupid and will check you out via your web address.

Now the question is this - is Jamie a snake oil type, or is he genuinely building a quality directory. Although, we can guess and he can deny accusations, one thing we can be sure of and that's only he truly knows what the story is, and these guys aren't going to do what they don't want to do - Neb, you can't prevent that so why take such a strong stance. Just leave them to their own devices, it's so an ego trip for many directory owners, few make money, they all talk big and I think the thousands of rucks on forums tell the real story don't you.

If Jamie feels he can build a quality site, then I don't see the harm in it, but the age old arguement remains doesn't it - will he/they succeed? - which creates more opportunities for conflict hmmm. Okay, we are all proud of our 'creations of our genius' and one day someone like Google will come along and succeed where others failed. It will redefine what the web will be, but this is not about just having 'big balls' or a shed load of capital, it's not even about the quality aspect - it's about the idea being popular enough, in the right industry, idea must have massive scope for expansion, not just within itself, but the creation of additional portals as well.

So there is much to plan and think about, and as much as we love our creations, it's crazy to boast brilliance when it's empty, compared to one's like business.com or Caterer.com etc - crazy. Okay what do I mean by an empty site, a directory is not worth using if it has less than 2000 sites listed.

Why, because there aren't enough results for each town when people do a search. If I go to a directory and it has just 20 sites in an entire category of 30 sub-categories, then it's just listing 1 site in each and showing empty categories. That isn't a good experience, and empty categories only says businesses either dislike it for some reason or the owner doesn't have the time or inclination to fill it. So a nicely filled resource get's attention and aids in more sites listing themselves.

Remember, noone like to be the first to add themselves......

The directories end up turning paid hmmm, may be greed and hoping to become rich, but I seriously doubt a 'General stand-alone directory' can do this for these reasons:

• It's just a list of information that can be found elsewhere more easily
  
• General directories ARE NOT specialist portals created for searchers
  
• 90% main goal is to make money - not to serve human needs and interests
  
• Difficult to stand out on the web, unless either the idea is water-tight or an investor can be found.
  
• Directories tend to be Secondary information sources, only the very few make it news-wise and even then most will not survive.

Only webmasters chase General directories, now ask why real businesses don't want to know, and you'll have the answer why building another directory isn't a good idea anymore.

Exactly, these expert sites have their own user base, and those users are massive! I'm talking millions searching every year, my own specialist site broke 1 million visitors 2 years back, and it's only now just getting noticed.

This takes years of sacrifice to achieve guys, it's not some game - it's really difficult to get 1000 visitors to return each month, and such a site needs to be good to get that. So yep, it can be done, no doubt's there - but it takes so much more than most are prepared to put in and that is a fact!

This is another issue I have with General directories and a main reason why they don't deliver enough search results. They try and cover the world - this is insane and impossible to do, the more countries you cover, the more categories for each country, state, town is needed, thus the time required to fill it increases. This is impossible for 1 person to do. There are many directories where I go to a category and it has like 1 site in it - yeah, a real full directory there lol.

Best thing to do is do 1 town at a time, keep it small and focussed and don't chase the money until it becomes established. Do it for the users first and the advertisers second.

 

Let's get this out of the way first and I would have p.m'd you but you block them. Stop saying in a thousand words what you can say in hundred. That will help you a lot.

If your that interested in why many of the categories are empty perhaps asking them via their feedback form would help?

Either way, they'll be here in ten years, will you?

 

I don't think contacting directories for feedback goes on that much, so it's a bit pointless Jamie and wouldn't waste my time with it. I was merely making a point about empty directories.

Will I be here in 10 years - well if you meant "Will my site be on the web in 10 years" then most probably Yes. Only 3.5 years to go, so no problem.

I'm already looking at my 2nd main portal business, which will be much easier and faster to get established than my 2nd directory effort. I did consider a Quality directory but I'm more into 'useful sites' and easily add those to my ever-growing database without messing about with building seperate sites for the quality touch.

 

Liam, stop being such a knowitall bighead, no wonder you were never liked by your peers. I give you a chance to get involved with knowledge and you blow the chance.

Get on with your fantasy world then, no more offers of favour from me if that's the case. oh, its a small World, got to talking to someone who interviewed you a while back, was an eye opener.

 

Directories are great!

 

and can you expand on that comment and how it deals with the OP

 

Instead of taking advantage of this oppurtunity to discuss the merits of directories vs SEs it is unfortunate that you choose to turn it into a string of personal attacks. If you do not want an open discussion of your opinions then perhaps you should refrain from posting them here.

 

This is where I see the web going. If I have a question about my broken computer, I won't go to google and ask 'why doesn't my PC work' - I'll go to a computer portal/site/directory. If I want to know all about films, I won't go to google and ask 'latest releases' - I'll go to an online movie database/directory where I know the results are simply superior in every way possible.

100% specialist directories are worth their weight in Gold. Many like accuracy and speed, over mass results and to 'buy now'.

I use Search engines as a starting point only, but once I find a better method of search, I make a note of it, and thus the search engine loses those searches in favour of the new search option/tool/engine forever.

 

All I can say to someone who doesn't even own a directory and from trolling you do is this

@Event_King;

That's exactly what a dedicated family safe directory would be, a specialist in keeping out the crap yet still offering the relevant results.

 

Didn't we establish that other day that you don't actually own a directory. In any case you hit that ignore link, that should enable discussions about directories free of puerile personal attacks from our dear little Jamie Jim Jam.

 

Aw jeeze, it never worked, still got a prompt on you. No, we established YOU don't have a directory, I have a vested interest and more than one directory of my own which I just don't happen to boast about.

Does anyone know how to switch that darn ignore trolls button? Jamie Jim Jam! LMAO; How very adult of you.

 

I hate to say this but this thread is sounding like when my two 5 years olds are having a discussion its all off topic and I am better than you lets get back to the OP observations on what people think

 

For some reason this nebuchadrezzar has chosen to chase me around the forum attacking just about every post and hi-jacking every thread. What's worse is he has little or no interest in directories, his posts have made that clear so I really don't know why he is so bent on trolling with a view to harassing me.

I've added the idiot to my ignore list now and warned him not to p.m me either. Isn't harassing against forum rules jiminscoe? Perhaps he should be reported as he's done it far too many times now.

 

yes it is http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=216611

 

Lets be clear on this point. For many years now I have been an outspoken critic of the pay for inclusion directory business on many forums. That Jamie has often been the one on the receiving end of much of the criticism is unfortunate however that is a function of his posts as a self-appointed expert in this industry.

I have tried limit my discussion to the actions of the industry and the actions of those in it rather than resorting to personal attacks. Webmasters are the paying customers of directories, that I seek to educate them on the worthlessness of the vast majority of pay for inclusion directories fits squarely within the purpose of this forum.

If on the other hand the purpose of this forum is to sing the joys of pay for inclusion directory industry, without dissension, then you all better get your white robes out and look for the nearest tree to throw the noose over.

 

I've never appointed myself as anything, its up to people how they take my posts as to what value of expertise they may or may not have.

You can comment without making unnecessary and inflammatory comments. As someone who openly concedes to not having any other interest in directories except for being a volunteer with dmoz Its not hard to wonder why you don't stick to your own area of expertise instead of constantly flaming. If one didn't know better you would be forgiven for thinking you've not been paid to come to this area of the forum to deliberately incite, and that's not just me thinking this.

Now for the umpteenth time, can we please get back on topic.

 

Well that I am not involved with any of the tens of thousands of directories selling snake oil is something which I am very proud, young Jamie, and that I have an opinion on the tens of directories that create a vaguely useful product has nothing to do with the former. What you are in effect saying is that someone needs to sell fake Rolex watches in the street to have a valid opinion on Rolex watches.

OK back on topic which was the benefit of a directory over a search engine . In the old days (late nineties) search engines were very poor, easy to manipulate and spam and directories were often a superior source of information. However over the years algorithms have improved significantly and search engines have become much less vulnerable to spam and manipulation and SEs have become very very good at locating specific information . At the same time directories have stagnated, they struggle to keep fresh, they have become poor cousins to the search engine and while they can have their uses, largely they have become an anachronism.

The premise that someone can create a late 20th century style general directory that will have anything but a fraction of the usefulness of a modern search engine defies all logic. It might be achievable in a niche or perhaps with a web 3.0 concept but it aint going to happen with the old technologies.

This article on The perils of Semantic Manipulation does little but deflect attention away from the cold hard realities of the challenges facing the humble directory in 2008.

 

What is it that the public want from the web, find that out and keep supplying it then you have a model for eternal success.

SE's or directories, we are talking apples and oranges here - 2 different ideas to find information, one superior to the other for different reasons but unfortunately search engines are just used more, and how to take enough away from the SE's to frustrate them, and slow them down.

Let's face facts and it's an annoying one at that ~ Google is too big, but we have a few more to worry about too eg: MSN, Yahoo, AOL, Lycos - then the 2nd tiers FAST, AltaVista, Excite, yet everyone sees Google as the ONLY threat somehow. To get to Google, first you need to remove the 2nd tier engines and remain in their place, currently only one company has the power to do this - Reed....... but even though they have a new spanking shiny engine called MyZibb (News, Blogs, Classifieds, Directory) and it's total online revenue has increased from £120 million to £1.2 billion over the past 10 years - they aren't rich enough to buy out any of the big 3. No, this is going to take some incredible force or amazing idea to win.

Directories were about hundreds of years before search engines came along, and even so, the most a top directory can ever hope for now is a mere 1% of a specialty area. But do it right, and the 1% is enough or is it.........

So the smart move is to actually forget trying to defeat the Google's, and create a totally new service from scratch - that's how you become successful, and that's the entrepreneurial way! Buggering about with copycat general directories is all very egotistical "Wow look at me, I'm a Director of my own company" hmmm - but are you a millionaire, somehow I doubt it.

You want to beat Google, then you gotta forget this ego crap, and build something original. MySpace, Parkatmyhouse, MyVouchercodes, Youtube, CheapFlights - all 100% original ideas, famous and likely very rich.

How bad do you want it - or are webmasters destined to remain as Nobody's for the rest of their lives.

 

Google aren't ever going to be safe, if someone can create this it will be original. Not everyone has an ego, certainly not me, I can quite easily move on to a comfy office now I've gained my LPC but I'm not being a glorified teaboy for the next two years for anybody. I see what I plan to do as a challenge not an ego thing.

The problem with you Liam, is you actually believe you know more than people with aver 12 years experience in directories, I'm only early mid 20's but been at this that long and sitting on the shoulders of the best. What you are thinking as good ideas, I along with my mentors have looked into and dismissed a thousand times. We have the airline booking engines, we have the communities, we have the knowledge that Google has an Achilles heal, we now just have to work our hearts out on figuring a way to beat them which we believe we have.

One of my mentors told me recently, 'Jamie' ignore them, you don't have to think of new ideas, nor do you need to re-invent the wheel, you just have to find a way of making that wheel work better.

Of on a tangent here for a sec, what happened to your hosting company? Also, you never did point me to the articles you said were around that were te same as mine, did you forget to point them to me?

@nebuchadrezzar;

Yes they have, and most directories out there don't deserve the title, this stagnancy was the main reason our entire database was deleted for re-review because we fell into the partial trap of tying to get too much content over quality content. After a lot of heavy investment and programming we now have a system where as we build the directory we can pretty much keep the content fresh by keeping it clean.

Google has improved on content but for the points I've mentioned along with a few other reasons it will be simply impossible for them to keep it clean as a directory can which is the whole point of this thread.

 

It is a good thing that the Joseph Lister, Galileo Galilei, Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, and the other great thinkers that have shaped our world did not have that fellow as a mentor. Without new ideas you are just one of many thousands regurgitating the same old tripe.